Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Sky broadband launches in Ireland

  • 26-07-2012 8:01am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 4,046 ✭✭✭


    Sky Ireland have just announced they'll be launching Phone and Broadband services in Ireland later this year in a deal with BT Ireland.

    More details to follow


«1345678

Comments

  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,659 ✭✭✭✭dahamsta


    If BT are as bad as ever, they couldn't have picked a worse partner....


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,046 ✭✭✭bealtine


    Of course if it's BT it will only be available in BT's 60 or so exchanges, all the rest will be bitstream.

    10 people selling black cars (with no choice of colour) is not really competition much as Comreg/DCENR would like us to believe that it is...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,874 ✭✭✭✭PogMoThoin


    I doubt very much if UPC are quivering in their shoes. Are they going offering on demand services?


  • Registered Users Posts: 561 ✭✭✭Dazza


    PogMoThoin wrote: »
    I doubt very much if UPC are quivering in their shoes. Are they going offering on demand services?
    They already do. ?


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 3,354 ✭✭✭smellslikeshoes


    PogMoThoin wrote: »
    I doubt very much if UPC are quivering in their shoes.

    I'm not so sure. Obviously Sky's Dsl isn't going to compete with UPC for speed but if they can keep the costs down for the triple play they will definitely hurt them in some situations. If sky were able to provide a basic Tv package with phone and broadband for a similar or lower price than UPC's basic €66 triple play package there is definitely people who would take the sky package over UPC simply because of Sky's TV service.

    At the very least this might put a fire under some providers to get costs down.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,874 ✭✭✭✭PogMoThoin



    At the very least this might put a fire under some providers to get costs down.

    But if it doesn't change line rental then there is no difference. Eircom make money on below cost sold bitstream no matter what price it's sold for.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,046 ✭✭✭bealtine



    At the very least this might put a fire under some providers to get costs down.

    I can't see this happening as the cost of line rental is set by Comreg and set artificially high so eircom can recoup their costs...so before you get any service on your line you are paying E26+ so there's not a lot of wriggle room


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    It's just Sky marketing spin to try and stop customers going to UPC. People need to ignore "triple" play and pick & match services.

    It adds nothing. BT even gave their entire Retail base to Vodaphone.

    Pick each service based on value, availability, your requirements and real performance. Avoid bundled lock-in.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,354 ✭✭✭smellslikeshoes


    bealtine wrote: »
    I can't see this happening as the cost of line rental is set by Comreg and set artificially high so eircom can recoup their costs...so before you get any service on your line you are paying E26+ so there's not a lot of wriggle room

    You are right of course there isn't a lot of wiggle room but what are other providers going to do when Sky start doing a basic bundled TV/broadband/phone package for <€60, spread their cheeks and just take it?
    It's not real competition as we all know but it can't be a bad thing that a company the size of sky has thought to join the market even if it is for the most part just to head off UPC.
    watty wrote: »
    It's just Sky marketing spin to try and stop customers going to UPC. People need to ignore "triple" play and pick & match services.

    It adds nothing. BT even gave their entire Retail base to Vodaphone.

    Pick each service based on value, availability, your requirements and real performance. Avoid bundled lock-in.

    I agree with this and I'm sure the majority of people who view this board do too but your average Joe Bloggs who just wants "all da channels" and cheap broadband for the average stuff would sooner go for what seems like a decent triple play deal for the one bill.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 4,046 ✭✭✭bealtine


    You are right of course there isn't a lot of wiggle room but what are other providers going to do when Sky start doing a basic bundled TV/broadband/phone package for <€60, spread their cheeks and just take it?
    It's not real competition as we all know but it can't be a bad thing that a company the size of sky has thought to join the market even if it is for the most part just to head off UPC.


    If Sky can do that then fair ball to them or even make a business case for doing it...maybe the business case is simply to head off UPC

    The only part of the equation where they can make a few bob is on the LLU part. I can't see where they can make significant savings/reductions on the bitstream part of the equation.

    LLU line rental currently costs E12.41 so there's some wriggle room there but the bitstream costs are fixed and exorbitant. Here is a table of current costs for bitstream : http://www.eircomwholesale.ie/News/Bitstream_Price_Cuts/
    As you can see the most basic DSL provision costs E21.50.

    Now excluding retail minus costings...

    so 21.50 + 26 = 47 includes a bit of wholesaler profit
    That's about the cheapest that bitstream DSL can be delivered at...and most providers like Voda are only charging E40 (with pathetic caps)
    The only real wriggle room is on the cost of the TV package.

    Sky must have spotted something we can't see or it's a loss leader


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,265 ✭✭✭RangeR


    bealtine wrote: »
    it's a loss leader

    On the ball, I'd say.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,354 ✭✭✭smellslikeshoes


    bealtine wrote: »
    If Sky can do that then fair ball to them or even make a business case for doing it...maybe the business case is simply to head off UPC

    That's all it is for Sky. There hasn't been any real change in the Irish market that would make Sky want to jump in other than a rampant UPC. Also maybe I haven't seen it but have they actually said that they are going to go down the bitstream road? All I've seen is their tie up with BT and their LLU exchanges.
    bealtine wrote: »
    Sky must have spotted something we can't see or it's a loss leader
    The conspiracy theorist in me is half expecting a cut of line rental to be announced in the next while :pac:


    Also just so we are clear that <€60 figure I mentioned above is complete speculation. Nothing at all to think it will be that low other than it will be barely worth their while getting the boat over unless they are able to compete with UPC for price.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,046 ✭✭✭bealtine



    The conspiracy theorist in me is half expecting a cut of line rental to be announced in the next while :pac:
    Not a hope in hell of that:)

    unless they are able to compete with UPC for price.


    Well eircom's definition of "competition" isn't the same one used by the rest of the world, for instance to compete with UPC they charge E20 extra for a lesser service. see : http://www.eircom.net/broadband/fibre/
    E50 a month for 25Mbs hardly competes with UPC in any meaningful way.
    Maybe this is the same route as Sky will take?

    Maybe Sky are reading the playbook of eircom? I sure as hell don't forsee an outbreak of any form of competition maybe just a lot more status quo:)


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    The only part of the equation where they can make a few bob is on the LLU part. I can't see where they can make significant savings/reductions on the bitstream part of the equation.

    NO, not even on LLU! The part where they make money is the Pay TV. They will lose money or at best break even on the Broadband. Which will be an AVERAGE of 3Mbps to 4Mbps (very few will get more than 8Mbps). UPC average is heading towards 20Mbps.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,046 ✭✭✭bealtine


    watty wrote: »
    NO, not even on LLU! The part where they make money is the Pay TV. They will lose money or at best break even on the Broadband. Which will be an AVERAGE of 3Mbps to 4Mbps (very few will get more than 8Mbps). UPC average is heading towards 20Mbps.

    You think there's no coin to be made even on LLU, that is sad. There's no hope for DSL in this country...eircom have rightly screwed up the fibre pricing too so there's not a lot of hope there

    The entry level broadband from UPC is now 25Mbs so the average must be higher than that


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    bealtine wrote: »
    The entry level broadband from UPC is now 25Mbs so the average must be higher than that

    That's for new customers in upgraded areas. I don't think every area is upgraded. But you are right, the UPC average will likely jump to 30, 40 and then maybe 50Mbps or so and DSL is stuck at 3Mbps to 5Mbps average.

    We need a national FTTC/FTTK plan with a good dose of FTTH/FTTP and some quality fixed Wireless and ZERO Mobile/LTE/Satellite in the plan.

    My faith will only be restored if there are prosecutions over the mis-sold NBS.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,229 ✭✭✭jmcc


    Pay as you go PPV via broadband? Netflix may be a problem as it is changing the operation of the pay television model to an on-demand model.

    Regards...jmcc


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,046 ✭✭✭bealtine




  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,659 ✭✭✭✭dahamsta


    It's Genesis Europe all over again. :)


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 4,046 ✭✭✭bealtine


    dahamsta wrote: »
    It's Genesis Europe all over again. :)

    My god there's a memory from the distant past:)

    I think BT have deeper pockets than Genesis or eircom so they should be able to see it through, but of course it will only be urban areas


  • Registered Users Posts: 4 Matt_ie


    Hi, i just stumbled across this thread while searching out info on the new Sky broadband/telephone service. I'm currently with UPC and had a Sky rep trying to pre-sell me the new Sky all in one package today. I've been pretty happy with the UPC service quality in general and would never consider going back to an old 'telephone line' connection via the old eircom wires which I personally feel is outdated and totally sub standard in 2012. I said this to the Sky rep and they claimed that the new TV, broadband & telephone service will all be delivered via the satellite dish to the modem? Does anybody know if this is true? They claimed I could get a better digital TV package, 30mb broadband and telephone for 55euro per month (with 2x free digi boxes) if I sign up - I'm currently paying 75euro plus to UPC (digital TV with 2x boxes and no premium subscriptions) They also claimed UPC is actually increasing prices soon so this looks like a no-brainer if it's true... but is it true??? anyone know more???


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,435 ✭✭✭wandatowell


    bealtine wrote: »
    My god there's a memory from the distant past:)

    I think BT have deeper pockets than Genesis or eircom so they should be able to see it through, but of course it will only be urban areas

    So just Dublin so while the rest of us have to wait years for a service :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,046 ✭✭✭bealtine


    Matt_ie wrote: »
    I said this to the Sky rep and they claimed that the new TV, broadband & telephone service will all be delivered via the satellite dish to the modem?

    Sounds like pure bs to me.

    Anyway you'd be utterly crazy to go from UPC broadband to satellite "midband" which under no possible circumstances could possibly be called broadband


  • Registered Users Posts: 4 Matt_ie


    bealtine wrote: »
    Sounds like pure bs to me.

    Anyway you'd be utterly crazy to go from UPC broadband to satellite "midband" which under no possible circumstances could possibly be called broadband

    Yes, I'm kinda skeptical... but what about the claim that they can supply "broadband" @30mb (and higher if you want it btw) via the satellite dish - is this technically possible? The price seems too good to be true (would save me about 25euro a month!) but I've had it over the years with crappy broadband via ancient eircom wires and contention ratios slowing my internet down to a crawl etc. The Sky rep claimed I won't be using the old landline connection - I don't even know if that works anymore anyway as I've only moved in recently. So it's all down to whether this is pure BS or whether you can actually get 30mb BB via a satellite dish??? Would welcome any comments from anyone who really knows about this kinda stuff!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,874 ✭✭✭✭PogMoThoin


    Matt_ie wrote: »
    Yes, I'm kinda skeptical... but what about the claim that they can supply "broadband" @30mb (and higher if you want it btw) via the satellite dish - is this technically possible? The price seems too good to be true (would save me about 25euro a month!) but I've had it over the years with crappy broadband via ancient eircom wires and contention ratios slowing my internet down to a crawl etc. The Sky rep claimed I won't be using the old landline connection - I don't even know if that works anymore anyway as I've only moved in recently. So it's all down to whether this is pure BS or whether you can actually get 30mb BB via a satellite dish??? Would welcome any comments from anyone who really knows about this kinda stuff!

    You cannot get real broadband from a satellite, end of.

    It's a physics thing, it's a 45,000 mile round trip. You can't make radio waves move any faster. The ping times on satellite (time it takes a packet to get to the satellite and back to earth) are huge, over 700ms, this makes it unsuitable for anything in realtime like gaming, Vpn or VoIP (Skype). Compare that to about 30ms average on Dsl (Eircom) and even less on cable like UPC. It's just too far away to deliver anything other than optimised browsing (it's not even great at that but they use some smoke and mirrors tricks).


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,046 ✭✭✭bealtine


    Matt_ie wrote: »
    Yes, I'm kinda skeptical... but what about the claim that they can supply "broadband" @30mb (and higher if you want it btw) via the satellite dish - is this technically possible?

    You cannot get anything like broadband from a satellite (like I said already) and asking again won't change that :)
    The TV service doesn't require "realtime" performance so is fine delivered by satellite...

    I suggest you have a look at the IrelandOffline website
    www.irelandoffline.org where a number of the more technical people from this group have analysed this issue.

    If you want to have fun ask the rep to give you guarantees for all the various claims in writing...on Sky headed paper


  • Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭Mr. TTime


    I had a sky rep knock on my door last week (we are already Sky subscribers) and she said the same thing to me: 20 -25 meg broadband coming through the dish...currently we get 2mb from Smart on our landline so obviously our heads would be turned...but if people are saying this isn't possible then why are Sky insisting that this is what they are intending to do?

    Is it a case of "say anything to secure the sale"? - probably...


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,265 ✭✭✭RangeR


    Mr. TTime wrote: »
    I had a sky rep knock on my door last week (we are already Sky subscribers) and she said the same thing to me: 20 -25 meg broadband coming through the dish...currently we get 2mb from Smart on our landline so obviously our heads would be turned...but if people are saying this isn't possible then why are Sky insisting that this is what they are intending to do?

    Is it a case of "say anything to secure the sale"? - probably...

    While it's possible that the speeds are obtainable [for how many customers is questionable], but it's not broadband for all the same reasons mentioned on Friday.

    My feeling is that Sky are intending to provide over BT [LLU] copper [maybe bitstream for the rest] but the door to door sales agents have no idea and just assume that because TV is coming through the dish, so will the "broadband".


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,230 ✭✭✭Solair


    Matt_ie wrote: »
    Hi, i just stumbled across this thread while searching out info on the new Sky broadband/telephone service. I'm currently with UPC and had a Sky rep trying to pre-sell me the new Sky all in one package today. I've been pretty happy with the UPC service quality in general and would never consider going back to an old 'telephone line' connection via the old eircom wires which I personally feel is outdated and totally sub standard in 2012. I said this to the Sky rep and they claimed that the new TV, broadband & telephone service will all be delivered via the satellite dish to the modem? Does anybody know if this is true?

    I can 100% assure you that what you have been told is complete and utter nonsense.

    They really need to get their reps under control. Going around spinning utter rubbish like that to customers is not helpful to their sales, to Sky or to their potential customers.

    Sky are using BT Ireland Wholesale to provide their service. It will be delivered as DSL "up to 24 mbit/s" if you are in an area with BT LLU or in other areas using eircom's wholesale access products where they are either up to 24 mbit/s, or if you're unfortunate enough to live in an area that eircom don't think is worth upgrading, 8mbit/s or no service at all.
    Service will be delivered over your telephone line, just like any DSL product.

    Sky could opt to connect some customers to eircom or BT Ireland's fibre access products when they become available. So far they're not available in very many places.

    However, it is absolutely, definitely not being provided over your satellite dish!


Advertisement