Dublin Bus Network Review

markpb · 04-05-2012 10:48am

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

This imo is what is needed to get commuters to leave their cars at home, not a high frequency Wanderly Wagon.

It seems to me that a combination of the two is what's needed. Making the buses more frequent but slower is just as bad as making them faster but less frequent. You might be happy with a 30 minute headway but most people wouldn't, especially if they're making connections.

In my experience, DB could speed up buses more by reducing dwell time at bus stops (multi doors, off bus ticketing, no cash, etc) and having the local authorities properly enforce parking regulations at bus stops, kerbs and junctions that by straightening out the route.

LXFlyer · 04-05-2012 10:52am

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Has someone in DBHQ decided that frequency is more important than journey time?
Personally I'd always prefer a quicker journey even if frequency needed to be reduced to accomplish this. Though maybe I'm in the minority by being someone who'll make an effort to follow a timetable and thus get to the bus-stop when the bus is due, not just at a random time.

Journey Time and reliability are far more important than frequency imo, yet ND seem to blather on about buses every 5/10/15 minutes on certain routes as if that is the key thing.
But give me a 30 minute frequency instead, and a bus which takes a sensible route and doesn't meander in and out of every estate going.

This imo is what is needed to get commuters to leave their cars at home, not a high frequency Wanderly Wagon.

But the 15 doesn't meander into any housing estates? I'm not sure where you are getting that idea.

In the broad scheme of things what is needed is both - a high frequency direct route along each QBC and other less frequent routes that serve the estates. Broadly speaking that is what they have done.

ArmaniJeanss · 04-05-2012 11:05am

lxflyer wrote: »

But the 15 doesn't meander into any housing estates?

In the broad scheme of things what is needed is both - a high frequency direct route along each QBC and other less frequent routes that serve the estates. Broadly speaking that is what they have done.

I'm not really aware of the 15 route.

I think my point was more that 'frequency' seems to be a Holy Grail of ND and its press releases, with route changes being declared a success and resultant advertising campaigns based on how a route has a bus every X minutes at peak and every Y minutes off peak.

Whereas imo its not actually that important a factor, and is behind journey time in importance. I work with people who would take the bus only rarely and I've heard 'slowness of journey' and 'poor reliability' used as a reason not to use the bus, but have never heard 'poor frequency' put forward. In general the 20something/30something commuter is clued in enough to use an online timetable nowadays. If theres a bus due at 8am thats when they'll turn up, they'll expect the bus on time and they'll expect a direct journey.
If this doesn't happen then the fact that theres another bus at 8.10,8.20 and 8.30 won't matter, they'll mentally decide that the bus is not the way to go.

LXFlyer · 04-05-2012 11:53am

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

I'm not really aware of the 15 route.

I think my point was more that 'frequency' seems to be a Holy Grail of ND and its press releases, with route changes being declared a success and resultant advertising campaigns based on how a route has a bus every X minutes at peak and every Y minutes off peak.

Whereas imo its not actually that important a factor, and is behind journey time in importance. I work with people who would take the bus only rarely and I've heard 'slowness of journey' and 'poor reliability' used as a reason not to use the bus, but have never heard 'poor frequency' put forward. In general the 20something/30something commuter is clued in enough to use an online timetable nowadays. If theres a bus due at 8am thats when they'll turn up, they'll expect the bus on time and they'll expect a direct journey.
If this doesn't happen then the fact that theres another bus at 8.10,8.20 and 8.30 won't matter, they'll mentally decide that the bus is not the way to go.

By and large though, on each QBC there is now at least one direct high frequency route that fulfills that requirement that you are looking for. In Blanchardstown it is the 39a, on the Stillorgan Road it's the 46a/145, on Lucan it's the 25a/25b.

There were serious reliability issues when some of the changes were implemented (particularly with the 13, 27, 38/a, 46a and 145) but by and large these have now been resolved. I do however think that it took far too long for that to happen, and some people may now not realise that the issues have been resolved, having stopped using the service due to the reliability issues that they experienced.

There are several aspects to the resulting bus service:

1) Regular interval services and clockface schedules - this was essential - the previous timetables were a total hotchpotch.

2) High frequency direct route on every QBC, backed up with other routes that serve estates

3) Integrated timetables between routes on the QBC where possible

4) Availability of live information

Bazzer2 · 04-05-2012 11:58am

rx8 wrote: »

New schedules for Route 1 only came out yesterday,and they also propose a start date of Sunday 13th. May. Can't see the drivers voting in favour tbh.

It doesn't matter if drivers reject it, the company will just push the new schedules through anyway and worry about fixing it later.

It happened with the 13, where the drivers originally rejected it on the grounds of insufficient running time, but were ignored. As a result, the schedule was a disaster with the timetable collapsing every day, until the company was forced into a rethink.

AlekSmart · 04-05-2012 12:56pm

markpb wrote: »

In my experience, DB could speed up buses more by reducing dwell time at bus stops (multi doors, off bus ticketing, no cash, etc) and having the local authorities properly enforce parking regulations at bus stops, kerbs and junctions that by straightening out the route.

Sadly,Dublin Bus has no official role in this,other than to "Liase" with the relevant responsible authorities.

Currently,in Dublin Civic Administrative terms those authorities have taken a prolonged sabbatical from their duties.

Take,for a single example Ranelagh Village.

Here,the rule of law in relation to Road Traffic Act requirements has been effectively suspended,as each evening this important throughway is reduced to a single-lane in each direction due to totally unregulated Car Parking.

The problematic parking is on two fronts,illegal,as in on the junction of Chelmsford Road and Ranelagh Village (Opposite a solid-white median line,within 5 metres of a junction etc etc).

Then there is the legal parking resulting from the Council's protracted refusal to reinstate regulatory markings which existed prior to the marking of a Cycle Lane several years ago.

Nobody appears to be responsible,Gardai meander nonchalantly around the place always able to dodge into a handy laneway should a confrontational "situation" unfold near their beat.....one such example is the clearly signed NO RIGHT TURN from Ranelagh Road to Sallymount Avenue,which regularly sees traffic flow restricted to favour some boorish clot sitting with a right-turn indicator flashing,having passed and ignored TWO NO RIGHT TURN Signs en route....:mad:

A somewhat simple answer would be to make Ranelagh Village a one-way system with Leeson St bound traffic remaining as is,via Chelmsford Road,but with Milltown bound traffic diverting via Sallymount Ave.

This would of course require some significant reduction of on-street Pay-and-Display spaces ( :eek: :eek:),but would offer substantial benefits to general commuters and particularly Bus users ....

However,the preferred and customary Irish methodology remains firmly in place.....ignore everything until something awful occurs,then seek out the lowliest individual or grouping to blame...World Class Administration !!

qerty · 04-05-2012 4:00pm

New 16 and 47 timetable....very sneaky upload so it was
http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Your-Journey1/Timetables/All-Timetables/162/
http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Your-Journey1/Timetables/All-Timetables/47-Revised-Times/

LXFlyer · 04-05-2012 4:11pm

Not that sneaky - they have to put the times up before the notice....

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/News-Centre/General-News/CHanges-to-Routes-1-2-3-16-16a-44-44b-and-47/

Changes to Routes 1, 2, 3, 16, 16a, 44, 44b and 47
Friday, May 04, 2012

Dublin Bus wishes to advise customers of the following changes to Routes 1, 2, 3, 16, 16a, 44, 47, from Sunday 13th May.

Routes 1, 2 and 3 will be amalgamated and operate as Route 1. Route 1 will operate cross city from Santry (Shanard) to Sandymount via Swords Road, Drumcondra, Dorset Street, Parnell Square, O’Connell Street, Townsend Street, Pearse Street and Ringsend.

Sandymount and Ringsend will benefit from a 10 minute morning peak service on Route 1. This will significantly improve the reliability of the service and help maintain even intervals between the services at all stages on its route.

City Centre stops are
Northbound: Parnell Square (stop PS), O’Connell Street, Clerys (stop OR) and Townsend Street (stop CS).
Southbound: Westmoreland Street (stop CD), O’Connell Street (stop OG) and Parnell Street (stop PK).

Route 44 will operate a cross city service from Larkhill to Enniskerry providing a direct link from Collins Avenue/ Larkhill to Drumcondra Rail Station, O’Connell Street, Pearse Street Rail Station, Merrion Square, Ranelagh, Dundrum Town Centre, Stepaside, Kilternan and Enniskerry. Route 44 will also provide direct connections between both Red and Green Luas lines.

Please note Route 44 will no longer operate via Ballyogan, making journeys to the city centre more direct from Enniskerry and Kilternan. For alternative services from Ballyogan please see Route 63.

Route 44b minor timetable change.

City Centre stops are as follows:
Northbound: Parnell Square (stop PS), O’Connell Street (stop OM) and D’Olier Street (stop CK).
Southbound: Westmoreland Street (stop CD), O’Connell Street (stop OG), Parnell Square West (stop PK).

Route 47 will operate a revised alignment providing improved linkages from South Dublin to the Docklands area. The service will operate from Sandyford (Belarmine) via Sandyford Industrial Estate, Stillorgan SC, UCD Belfield, St. Vincent’s Hospital, Sandymount and Ringsend to Fleet Street. Route 47 will provide improved connections to key business and leisure areas (Grand Canal Dock, Aviva Stadium, Shelbourne Park and Bord Gáis Energy Theatre). Route 47 will benefit from the consistency provided by the dedicated bus priority on Pearse Street QBC.

Routes 16 and 16a will be amalgamated and operate as Route 16. Route 16 will operate a high frequency service operating at intervals of up to 5 minutes during peak times from Ballinteer (Kingston), serving Dublin Airport. Morning peak services from Santry to the City Centre will be similar to current alignments. These changes will significantly improve the reliability of the service and help maintain even intervals between the services at all stages on its route.

City Centre stops are as follows:
Northbound: Parnell Square (stop PP), O’Connell Street (stop OP) and D’Olier Street (stop CK).
Southbound: Westmoreland Street (stop CC), O’Connell Street (stop OG), Parnell Square West (stop PK).

Please note route 16a will be withdrawn. For alternative services to the City Centre from Nutgrove Avenue, please see Route 14 and Route 61.

These changes are part of Network Direct, a redesign of bus services in Dublin City to provide a more direct, high frequency and punctual service.

Thank you for travelling with Dublin Bus.

Revised Route 1
Revsied Route 16
Revised Route 44
Revised Route 44b
Revised Route 47

Customers can also get updates on Facebook or follow us on Twitter @dublinbusnews or call our customer service line on (01) 8734222, lines open from 08:30 - 18:00hrs (Monday to Saturday excluding bank holidays).

LXFlyer · 04-05-2012 4:16pm

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/News-Centre/General-News/Route-61-Terminus-Change/

Route 61 Terminus Change
Friday, May 04, 2012

Dublin Bus wishes to advise customers that from Sunday 13th May Route 61 will have an outbound terminus change in the City Centre.

Route 61 will depart from stop CK on D’Olier Street. It will no longer pick up at stop CR on Townsend Street. Revised Route 44 will also serve stop CK on D’Olier Street, providing an integrated timetable with Route 61. This will significantly improve the frequency of service from the city centre to Ranelagh, Milltown and Dundrum.

Customers can also get updates on Facebook or follow us on Twitter @dublinbusnews or call our customer service line on (01) 8734222, lines open from 08:30 - 18:00hrs (Monday to Saturday excluding bank holidays).

Conway635 · 04-05-2012 4:24pm

Overall, a good package.

Just a pity that whoever wrote the notice does not know the difference between North and South

C635

coylemj · 04-05-2012 4:26pm

So the No. 3 service between UCD and Sandymount will cease. I know not every No 3 did that stretch but it was useful for me while it lasted.

The No.1 will go no further than St. John's Church in Sandymount.

coylemj · 04-05-2012 4:29pm

Bazzer2 wrote: »

It doesn't matter if drivers reject it, the company will just push the new schedules through anyway and worry about fixing it later.

It happened with the 13, where the drivers originally rejected it on the grounds of insufficient running time, but were ignored. As a result, the schedule was a disaster with the timetable collapsing every day, until the company was forced into a rethink.

I get the feeling from the way DB drivers behave that if they make a prediction about a route revision, it will pan out they way they forecast because they'll make sure it does.

All they have to do is go easy on the gas, stop at every orange light and the service goes down the tubes - 'we told you so!'

Conway635 · 04-05-2012 4:38pm

coylemj wrote: »

So the No. 3 service between UCD and Sandymount will cease. I know not every No 3 did that stretch but it was useful for me while it lasted.

The No.1 will go no further than St. John's Church in Sandymount.

The re-routed 47 replaces that section.

C635

coylemj · 04-05-2012 4:47pm

Conway635 wrote: »

The re-routed 47 replaces that section.

C635

Thanks, pity DB didn't see fit to note that in the details on the new No. 1 route.

In other words, they expect people who use that route to read through all of the other revisions to see if they are being accommodated.

And just guess what happens when you go to the link for the revised 47 route and click on the 'View on Map' button?

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Your-Journey1/Timetables/All-Timetables/47-Revised-Times/

A2000 · 04-05-2012 4:53pm

Does the 1 & 16 serve shantalla rd? Or does either one. Seems unclear. First 16 from airport 8am mon- fri yet at 6.30 on sat if im reading it correctly.

LXFlyer · 04-05-2012 5:38pm

Northside Weekday Departures:

Basically the service is now until 0900:

Shanard Road:
16 - 0620, 0640, 0700, 0720, 0740, 0800, 0820, 0840
1 – From 0900

Larkhill:
16 – 0800
16c - 0700, 0900
44 – 0730, 0830

Airport:
16 – 0800, 0820, 0840, 0900

Collins Avenue via Beaumont
16 – 0710, 0730, 0810, 0830
16c - 0750

dfx- · 04-05-2012 5:52pm

Conway635 wrote: »

Just a pity that whoever wrote the notice does not know the difference between North and South

Fair play to ND if they can get the 16 to head northbound from D'Olier St

The deathknell for Summerhill's RVs surely, though they have been run into the ground in the last 6 months.

Dub13 · 04-05-2012 6:06pm

A2000 wrote: »

. First 16 from airport 8am mon- fri yet at 6.30 on.

Sure the first 16 from the airport is about that time now anyway.I would guess from this that the 41 will be staying doing the loop via the airport as there is no way they would have the first regular bus from the airport at 08:00.

Bazzer2 · 04-05-2012 6:08pm

coylemj wrote: »

All they have to do is go easy on the gas, stop at every orange light and the service goes down the tubes - 'we told you so!'

That's exactly what drivers are being told to do in refresher training!

AlekSmart · 04-05-2012 6:45pm

coylemj wrote: »

I get the feeling from the way DB drivers behave that if they make a prediction about a route revision, it will pan out they way they forecast because they'll make sure it does.

All they have to do is go easy on the gas, stop at every orange light and the service goes down the tubes - 'we told you so!'

I can quite happily reassure Coylemj on this issue

http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/traffic-lights-and-signals/traffic-lights.html

....and specifically....

An amber light means that you must not go beyond the stop line or, if there is no stop line, beyond the light. However, you may go on if you are so close to the line or the light when the amber light first appears that stopping would be dangerous.

...and just in case there were messers in the class....

REMEMBER You should always approach traffic lights at a speed that will allow you to stop if the amber light appears.

That clear enough...?

BenShermin · 04-05-2012 7:38pm

I thought one of the overall objectives of Network Direct was to simplify routes and timetables, eg. get rid of alpha suffixes and route variations on timetables?

The new route 1 and 16 timetables do the complete opposite to this objective of Network Direct. Sure why would they want to simplify a major route to/from the airport that gives tourists their first experience of the Emerald Isle, nah shure that would make too much sense!!

I also assume the new route 1 puts an end to the Poolbeg Extention/ESB service?
Dublin Bus couldn't be arsed providing information about that in this statement.

Stevek101 · 04-05-2012 7:42pm

Timetable suffix from Airport are insane. Worst DB timetable to date :rolleyes:

The_Wrecker · 04-05-2012 8:23pm

The 0805 47 inbound fills with people wanting the RDS to Holles st area, i guess no more.
Also the 1530 outbound has been dropped, thats the school bus for the kids behind Merrion shopping centre.

LXFlyer · 04-05-2012 8:47pm

I think your eyes are playing tricks on you Wrecker - the timetable for the 47 is identical to the old one - there's still a 1530 departure outbound!

stop · 04-05-2012 8:53pm

lxflyer wrote: »

Not that sneaky - they have to put the times up before the notice....

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/News-Centre/General-News/CHanges-to-Routes-1-2-3-16-16a-44-44b-and-47/

Sneaky is releasing notice of changes on Friday afternoon when people are less likely to notice it.

stop · 04-05-2012 8:55pm

AlekSmart wrote: »

I can quite happily reassure Coylemj on this issue

http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/traffic-lights-and-signals/traffic-lights.html

....and specifically....

...and just in case there were messers in the class....

That clear enough...?

Amber doesn't bother me, but I have noticed a fair few drivers slowing up on approach to a green light, I assume, in case it turns amber!

stop · 04-05-2012 8:57pm

Oh and yet another cut for mountain walkers, Saturday 44b cancelled. So after the 44b, 161 and 201, how long will the 185 survive?

The_Wrecker · 04-05-2012 9:37pm

stop wrote: »

Sneaky is releasing notice of changes on Friday afternoon when people are less likely to notice it.

The unions met the people who are meant to run the show yesterday morning and this was hammered out by noon.
Its going to be Tuesday before most hear the news from their drivers.
I cant see the Belamine/Stepaside/Murphystown customers staying with the service after this detour with the exception of the kids and college. The main users being between N11 and Mount st.

The_Wrecker · 04-05-2012 9:40pm

stop wrote: »

Amber doesn't bother me, but I have noticed a fair few drivers slowing up on approach to a green light, I assume, in case it turns amber!

In the depot we have huge posters saying approach every green light as if its about to turn amber. Also the DQM bus spy likes you to do similar.

AlekSmart · 04-05-2012 10:14pm

stop wrote: »

Amber doesn't bother me, but I have noticed a fair few drivers slowing up on approach to a green light, I assume, in case it turns amber!

Get their details,stop (great handle btw

!!),cos they are surely due a merit mark for this....

http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/traffic-lights-and-signals/traffic-lights.html

REMEMBER A green light is not a right of way, it is a licence to proceed with caution.

A "fair few" is'nt good enough,as the aim is for ALL drivers (not just Busdrivers) to treat the Green signal with respect.....

We have a native predisposition to assuming "Right of Way" in many motoring situations without realising that it is something which should be given rather than assumed to exist.

Dublin Bus Network Review

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