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Will Obama win a landslide victory?

24

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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,276 ✭✭✭Memnoch


    stretchtex wrote: »
    My friends on the left like to use certain unsettling buzz terms to frame the debate between Dems and Repubs. Neocon, evangelical, redneck, jingoistic, unsophisticated, racist. I don't fall into any of those category's and I also do not believe the President is a Muslim and wouldn't have a problem if he were. I get up 6 days a week at 5:30 am and go to work and I'm happy to do it. I expect any capable person to do the same. I believe in a strong defense but I'm opposed to the US meddling in others affairs. I'm mindful that a healthy diet and exercise is an essential component of a healthy existence but not interested in "the nanny state". $16 trillion is not an insignificant number to me. I believe that people who hold similar views an mine will be a factor in the upcoming election.

    All that is fine... but you would really vote for someone like Romney? Really?


  • Registered Users Posts: 33 stretchtex


    I believe that religion should play no role in matters of the state.
    I'm Catholic..don't believe in abortion.
    I don't see that as a contradiction.
    I don't subscribe to a cradle to the grave mentality.
    I believe a safety net of some degree should exist.
    I have no patience for loafers.
    I'm no teetotaler..I drink, curse and generally raise hell on occasion.
    Unions tend to prove to be a source of irritation for me. They played an important role in Chicago beef slaughter houses at the turn of the 20th century.
    In the grand scheme of things life is short and life is hard, I want to live free.
    The fact that a person aspires to be a politician automatically prevents them from obtaining my unwavering support.
    I'm generally optimistic.
    Gray, rainy days put me in a disagreeable mood.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,276 ✭✭✭Memnoch


    As I said... all of that is fine... though some of that seems confusing.

    What do you mean you don't believe in abortion? I'm assuming you mean you are against it. All that stuff you said is very poetic etc. I'm not questioning that you are a unique, complex or interesting individual.

    But none of the above helps to advance discussion or debate on the subject at hand...

    So I'll ask again... are you seriously thinking of voting for Romney in November. And if I may be so bold as to ask, I'd love to know why?


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 20,650 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    stretchtex wrote: »
    I believe that religion should play no role in matters of the state.
    I'm Catholic..don't believe in abortion.
    I don't see that as a contradiction.
    I don't subscribe to a cradle to the grave mentality.
    I believe a safety net of some degree should exist.
    I have no patience for loafers.
    I'm no teetotaler..I drink, curse and generally raise hell on occasion.
    Unions tend to prove to be a source of irritation for me. They played an important role in Chicago beef slaughter houses at the turn of the 20th century.
    In the grand scheme of things life is short and life is hard, I want to live free.
    The fact that a person aspires to be a politician automatically prevents them from obtaining my unwavering support.
    I'm generally optimistic.
    Gray, rainy days put me in a disagreeable mood.

    If these are beliefs, why would you vote Republican?

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,164 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    What else should he vote?

    Some of that list tends to lean towards Democrat thinking, some Republican. Some items, like the safety net, can swing either way depending on the details. Voting for a moderate Republican is not inconsistent.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    I can never understand the US conservative abhorrence of "cradle of grave" care of citizens.

    I mean why not care for your neighbours? Is it really such a bad thing?

    Is not caring for your people something to be proud of?

    :confused:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,565 ✭✭✭southsiderosie


    stretchtex wrote: »
    The narrative that's developing here in the states is if the Republicans control both chambers and the white house will they discontinue the Bush/Obama policies of uncontrolled spending or return to some semblance of fiscal sanity. Are we to believe the polls that 4 out of 10 Americans approve of the Presidents performance??...that's not reflected in my unscientific sampling.

    But that is the point - it is unscientific sampling.

    I live in Massachusetts. If I judged public opinion by the views of the people I know from my time here (most people who have left end up in New York, DC, or San Francisco), I would have a very warped view of American politics! Lucky for me, my political temperament was shaped by growing up in the Midwest where "all the women are strong, all the men are good looking, and all the children are above average." ;)

    Obama's approval/disapproval rating is approximately 47% pro/47% con.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,639 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    There are always the unexpected "Black Swan" events which could unseat the incumbent. Perhaps people have too much expectation in the office of President and should events happen that call the competence of the officeholder in question (thinking of Carter and the Iranian Hostages) - even if a President is unable to influence the event, he will still get punished at the polls.
    Thus, I'll be only heading down to bet on the result about month before the election.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,488 ✭✭✭Denerick


    InTheTrees wrote: »
    I can never understand the US conservative abhorrence of "cradle of grave" care of citizens.

    I mean why not care for your neighbours? Is it really such a bad thing?

    Is not caring for your people something to be proud of?

    :confused:

    To be fair to US conservatives they tend to be quite charitable in their personal lives - as in, they give a lot to charity and tend to volunteer for worthy causes in their communities.

    US conservatism is rooted in a suspicion of big government that harkens back to the culture of the frontier.

    Paradoxically, the modern conservative movement sees no contradiction in supporting draconian restrictions on the private lives of citizens or in enforcing religious dogma on the masses. They do, however, supposedly find the idea of a welfare state/socialism to be abhorrent.

    US conservatism died with Goldwater in '64; it was replaced by a social extremism that the likes of Goldwater wouldn't have been capable of recognising. US conservatism is at its best when it held to the philosophy of Edmund Burke - supporting change at a gradual pace, upholding the 'civilising' traditions of society, a skepticism of the extremism of left or right. Unfortunately this kind of conservative is now a tiny minority in a movement comprised mainly of fanatics, religious cranks and social extremists.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,164 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    InTheTrees wrote: »
    I can never understand the US conservative abhorrence of "cradle of grave" care of citizens.

    I mean why not care for your neighbours? Is it really such a bad thing?

    Is not caring for your people something to be proud of?

    :confused:

    The issue comes up when people view the care as an entitlement which they will always get, not as a helping hand for then when times get tough. The belief is that unrestricted caring provides little incentive for people who would otherwise simply leech. Limited caring will get people past the worst times, which can happen to the best of persons.

    NTM


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    The problem is that Obama hasn't really managed to do anything particularly amazing, and the novelty value of him has sortof worn out.

    He got Osama did he not? Rather amazing IMO. The Americans should be grateful forever for that, so that they can sleep in their beds knowing that the bad man is gone. That is worth re-election alone.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,599 ✭✭✭matthew8


    I don't blame Obama for the recession and though I don't like the means Osama was caught, that's not why I dislike him. It's the legislation he's brought in. The NDA and Obamacare come to mind, as well as his flip flop on the war on drugs.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15 Stupendousman


    Hey everyone likes Obama. He has achieved so many little things that have made things better for Americans, he gets very little press for this. But the most interesting is the race by the Republicans. I would love to see a Republican I could support. It is dangerous when one party becomes 'full of nutters'. Look at what happened in Ireland when we had no opposition party that you could support, it led to Bertie.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,599 ✭✭✭matthew8


    Hey everyone likes Obama. He has achieved so many little things that have made things better for Americans, he gets very little press for this. But the most interesting is the race by the Republicans. I would love to see a Republican I could support. It is dangerous when one party becomes 'full of nutters'. Look at what happened in Ireland when we had no opposition party that you could support, it led to Bertie.

    If you really think everyone likes Obama you're out of touch. What are these little things?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,488 ✭✭✭Denerick


    matthew8 wrote: »
    If you really think everyone likes Obama you're out of touch. What are these little things?

    Oh I don't know - saving the world from economic collapse, in spite of a crazy right wing belief that fiscally stable America with record low interest rates should eliminate the entire deficit in the space of a year or two?

    Winding down the war in Afghanistan?

    Attempting to fix America's absurd healthcare system?


  • Registered Users Posts: 15 Stupendousman


    I mean people in Ireland like Obama. Plus 47% of Americans.
    47% of Americans won't like the other guy no matter who he/she is.

    What has he done.....
    http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_has_President_Barack_Obama_done_so_far

    There are plenty more sites.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,599 ✭✭✭matthew8


    Denerick wrote: »
    Oh I don't know - saving the world from economic collapse, in spite of a crazy right wing belief that fiscally stable America with record low interest rates should eliminate the entire deficit in the space of a year or two?

    Winding down the war in Afghanistan?

    Attempting to fix America's absurd healthcare system?

    Obama saved the world from economic collapse- yeah right. He's increased the deficit and the workforce participation rate is far lower than when he took office. And the most right wing senators' deficit plan had the budget balancing within 5 years. The only people who have been saved are the shareholders. He has been spineless in his attacking of the economy and the deficit.

    The surge in Afghanistan you mean? Forcing people to buy health insurance is not fixing the healthcare system, it's just forcing people to buy health insurance.

    Right now there are less civil liberties than when Bush was president.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 20,650 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    What else should he vote?

    Some of that list tends to lean towards Democrat thinking, some Republican. Some items, like the safety net, can swing either way depending on the details. Voting for a moderate Republican is not inconsistent.

    Oh I agree, he should be a swing voter if those are his beliefs. I just wanted to know why he was voting Republican based on the above.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,164 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    He got Osama did he not? Rather amazing IMO. The Americans should be grateful forever for that, so that they can sleep in their beds knowing that the bad man is gone. That is worth re-election alone.

    Whatever Carter's failings during the Iran hostage crisis, I have always thought he unfairly got a bad rep with regards to Eagle Claw. He merely authorized an operation which most any President would have. That it screwed up was not his fault, but the fault of the military.

    It's not as if Obama was spending any time doing any inversion or detective work, not is there any reason to believe that the various services weren't working on the problem for the previous ten years. Just how much credit do you suggest that Obama receive for the final result beyond taking the political question of entering Pakistan?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,059 ✭✭✭Sindri


    Denerick wrote: »
    At this stage I'm assuming Romney will be the Republican nominee.

    The economic indicators look better every day and he is going to romp home with the lions share of the independent's vote, the Hispanic vote (Hispanics will not vote for the guy who hires them to clean his mansion) not to mention all the other minority votes (With the exception of the Mormons, obviously) This is Obama's to lose. He'll even be able to match the spending of Romney's corporate campaign.

    We're going to have an amoral shill, a venomous coward who will say anything to get elected, versus an effortlessly cool, socially progressive, economically competent sitting President. Romney doesn't stand a chance.

    I don't think Obama will win by a landslide victory though I do think he will win fairly comfortably.

    First of all Romney will be the Republican candidate. Romney is unconvincing, a vacillator, disconnected from the party's base and he lacks charisma or a sincere charm. He's like a plank. Many Republicans aren't to enthusiastic about him for some of is past misdemeanour's. As a moderate though I quite like him (even though I don't like him), I prefer him to his opponents (Santorum) and I think he's pandering to the social conservatives. In the past his views have been more liberal, views I still think he holds and I think he's a lot less socially conservative than he lets on.

    Romney though is unconvincing. He is in some ways I think unelectable, he's the American Pat Kenny. Expect a comprehensive, concentrated and charismatic campaign by Obama and an eventual lacklustre campaign from Romney (where his past misdemeanour's are viciously cut asunder). I think he'll fall short. He doesn't have the calm cool confidence of Obama, he doesn't have the same oratory skills of Obama (Obama will destroy him in the debates, he doesn't play the game fairly ;)) and he doesn't take risks, his character is some what insincere and detached and that confidence and air of command of Obama, his image particularly in front of an audience counts for a lot in elections.

    The economy is and will continue to pick up as well. Expect Obama to take credit for it and when he's re-elected expect the history books to give him the credit too, even though it doesn't particularly matter whose sitting in the Oval Office at the time.

    Only man capable of beating Obama (in an election ;)) is not running. That man is Chris Christie.

    I don't think we should make the naive mistake of debating the merits of the policies of the respective candidates. The most important thing in an election is image, and Obama comes out on top there by a country mile.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 15 Stupendousman


    Remember there it seems there is only about 10% of the vote up for grabs. Republicans will vote Republican and Democrats will vote Democrat. Obama has enough of the everyman image to get enough of the swing voters who will vote for the 'canidate would you most like to share a beer with' to get him over the finishing line comfortably but not easily. Romney is seen as a rich elitist and could alienate the average Joe (who pays more than 13% tax).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,334 ✭✭✭RichieC


    Whatever Carter's failings during the Iran hostage crisis, I have always thought he unfairly got a bad rep with regards to Eagle Claw. He merely authorized an operation which most any President would have. That it screwed up was not his fault, but the fault of the military.

    It's not as if Obama was spending any time doing any inversion or detective work, not is there any reason to believe that the various services weren't working on the problem for the previous ten years. Just how much credit do you suggest that Obama receive for the final result beyond taking the political question of entering Pakistan?

    Either way, the president is the fall guy if stuff goes arseways up. So you can't really complain that he takes the credit when it goes well.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,696 ✭✭✭Jonny7


    Whatever Carter's failings during the Iran hostage crisis, I have always thought he unfairly got a bad rep with regards to Eagle Claw. He merely authorized an operation which most any President would have. That it screwed up was not his fault, but the fault of the military.

    It's not as if Obama was spending any time doing any inversion or detective work, not is there any reason to believe that the various services weren't working on the problem for the previous ten years. Just how much credit do you suggest that Obama receive for the final result beyond taking the political question of entering Pakistan?

    Bush stated it was no longer a primary aim to catch Bin Laden, naturally the hunt lost impetus and the trail went cold for quite a while. It's fair that Obama can take credit for directly influencing a kick-start of the search again.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,488 ✭✭✭Denerick


    Remember there it seems there is only about 10% of the vote up for grabs. Republicans will vote Republican and Democrats will vote Democrat. Obama has enough of the everyman image to get enough of the swing voters who will vote for the 'canidate would you most like to share a beer with' to get him over the finishing line comfortably but not easily. Romney is seen as a rich elitist and could alienate the average Joe (who pays more than 13% tax).

    I think its way more than 10% - many registered democrats and Republicans have no natural affiliation with that party. In many cases they registered as teenagers and never bothered changing it in middle age. In some states it is actually actively misleading - places like South Carolina, Virginia and Georgia have lots of registered democrats but scratch past the surface and you discover quite a few aging rednecks in their 70s and 80s who voted democratic prior to 1964 (When Johnson abandoned the south for the democrats by ushering in the civil rights bill) who are still registered with the democrats because they never bothered changing it.

    As for the supposed polarisation of American politics; once you scratch the surface individuals tend to switch sides quite a lot. Think of all the districts that went blue on obama's coat tails in 2008 and who reverted to their natural red after 2010 - American politics is nothing if not turbulent.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    Just how much credit do you suggest that Obama receive for the final result beyond taking the political question of entering Pakistan?


    Rather a lot actually. Not entering Pakistan would not have led to the capture, so Obama made the call. The paid killers did the rest, as they are not paid to think. So he has what it takes, much to the chagrin of the Republicans.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,176 ✭✭✭Amerika


    It’s been quite a week... President Obama got caught selling America and it’s allies down river, helped to incite a race war, looked like a fool regarding his understanding of the Constitution with ObamaCare, and got humiliated when his budget was considered to be so bad that not even a single Democrat in Congress could support it. Perhaps he should push the "reset button" and go golfing.

    Obama 2012 landslide???


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,334 ✭✭✭RichieC


    Amerika wrote: »
    It’s been quite a week... President Obama got caught selling America and it’s allies down river, helped to incite a race war, looked like a fool regarding his understanding of the Constitution with ObamaCare, and got humiliated when his budget was considered to be so bad that not even a single Democrat in Congress could support it. Perhaps he should push the "reset button" and go golfing.

    Obama 2012 landslide???

    Thanks for the headlines Fox news, but I think I'll stick to actual news.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,176 ✭✭✭Amerika


    RichieC wrote: »
    Thanks for the headlines Fox news, but I think I'll stick to actual news.

    And what might that be pray tell?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,940 ✭✭✭Carcharodon


    Amerika wrote: »
    It’s been quite a week... President Obama got caught selling America and it’s allies down river, helped to incite a race war, looked like a fool regarding his understanding of the Constitution with ObamaCare, and got humiliated when his budget was considered to be so bad that not even a single Democrat in Congress could support it. Perhaps he should push the "reset button" and go golfing.

    Obama 2012 landslide???

    You should step out of the bubble every now and then and enter the real world. Trying to discredit the president by any petty way possible is getting so old. How about people show a little respect for the man they elected and rather than only worrying about when they can can grab power again (the only thing they seem to care about) how about they actually try and support this administration and the goals it has set out to help the country.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,334 ✭✭✭RichieC


    Amerika wrote: »
    And what might that be pray tell?

    Any news that doesn't receive morning pundit talking points from the RNC.


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