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Is being gay a choice

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 58 ✭✭whattotdo


    Thanks Betty M,just seen your post now.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 58 ✭✭whattotdo


    I met up with a group of people last night,college reunion..someway or another we all got chatting about sexuality.The group consisted of myself and eight others who would identify as heterosexual.I asked them their opinion on why some people are straight and others homosexual...for straight people they all thought 'they are born that way' and for homosexuality it's a choice.Just thought I's share that story


  • Registered Users Posts: 831 ✭✭✭DubArk


    whattotdo wrote: »
    I met up with a group of people last night,college reunion..someway or another we all got chatting about sexuality.The group consisted of myself and eight others who would identify as heterosexual.I asked them their opinion on why some people are straight and others homosexual...for straight people they all thought 'they are born that way' and for homosexuality it's a choice.Just thought I's share that story

    When asked:-
    8 heterosexual people thought they were born heterosexual.

    The same 8 heterosexual people thought that all homosexuals made a choice to be a homosexual.

    Probably a reflection of our education system tbh.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 58 ✭✭whattotdo


    DubArk wrote: »
    When asked:-
    8 heterosexual people thought they were born heterosexual.

    The same 8 heterosexual people thought that all homosexuals made a choice to be a homosexual.

    Probably a reflection of our education system tbh.


    My thoughts exactly..how can they say their sexuality is pre-determined and ours isn't...


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    DubArk wrote: »
    When asked:-
    8 heterosexual people thought they were born heterosexual.

    The same 8 heterosexual people thought that all homosexuals made a choice to be a homosexual.
    My reckoning is that people don't think about it properly.

    If they believe that they were "born" heterosexual, then it logically follows that they think that homosexual people too were born heterosexual and later made a choice to become homosexual.

    This presupposes that they believe they too would be capable of choosing to be homosexual. I can guarantee you that they would nearly all deny this and claim that they wouldn't be able to "turn" homosexual by choice. Or in other words, they don't believe it's possible for them to choose to be homosexual, but somehow other people can.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 58 ✭✭whattotdo


    Good point Seamus,I should have asked them could they turn gay..their argument was that as homosexual couples can't reproduce themselves it can't be genetic but I explained about genes skipping generations etc


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 83 ✭✭ShanePouch


    No matter how much exploring you might do, you'll never get a definite answer to this issue.

    What we know is that for some it is a choice, for others it's not. To claim that for all men who describe themselves as primarily same sex attracted that its a choice, or it isn't a choice, is pointless.

    I've met men who say there was an element of choice for them, just as I've met many other men who "choose" to lead a heterosexual lifestyle while also admitting to indulging in sex with other men.

    I've also met men who say they have no choice at all and could only have a successful homosexual sexual relationship and would find it impossible to have a heterosexual sexual relationship.

    Why do any of us feel the need to wrestle with a question "is being gay a choice" when there is more than one answer?


  • Registered Users Posts: 876 ✭✭✭Aurongroove


    ShanePouch wrote: »
    No matter how much exploring you might do, you'll never get a definite answer to this issue.

    What we know is that for some it is a choice, for others it's not. To claim that for all men who describe themselves as primarily same sex attracted that its a choice, or it isn't a choice, is pointless.

    I've met men who say there was an element of choice for them, just as I've met many other men who "choose" to lead a heterosexual lifestyle while also admitting to indulging in sex with other men.

    I've also met men who say they have no choice at all and could only have a successful homosexual sexual relationship and would find it impossible to have a heterosexual sexual relationship.

    Why do any of us feel the need to wrestle with a question "is being gay a choice" when there is more than one answer?

    it;s not voodoo. there are perfectly straight up answers.
    Being gay isn't a choice if you are gay. that is the answer.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 83 ✭✭ShanePouch


    it;s not voodoo. there are perfectly straight up answers.
    Being gay isn't a choice if you are gay. that is the answer.

    There are obviously many answers and not just one. For me, there was an element of choice in deciding whether or not to be gay.


  • Registered Users Posts: 831 ✭✭✭DubArk


    it;s not voodoo. there are perfectly straight up answers.
    Being gay isn't a choice if you are gay. that is the answer.


    I completely agree I never had a choice. If I had on realising that I was attached to only men, I'd of gladly chosen (back then) women. Life to start with would have been much easier; I will never forget the torment I went through.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 58 ✭✭whattotdo


    DubArk wrote: »
    I completely agree I never had a choice. If I had on realising that I was attached to only men, I'd of gladly chosen (back then) women. Life to start with would have been much easier; I will never forget the torment I went through.


    Exactly,it's not as if we woke up one morning and said 'I think,I'm going to be gay from now and make life so much harder for myself'!


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,538 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    it;s not voodoo. there are perfectly straight up answers.
    Being gay isn't a choice if you are gay. that is the answer.

    It's an answer NOT the answer.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 705 ✭✭✭keepkeyyellow


    The way I explain it to friends is that I'm right handed. I would like to be left handed but I can't choose that. If I try writing with my left hand it looks like scrawl so I'm stuck with my right hand.

    Unless you're ambidextrous then I suppose you could choose which hand you write with...


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,512 ✭✭✭baby and crumble


    The way I explain it to friends is that I'm right handed. I would like to be left handed but I can't choose that. If I try writing with my left hand it looks like scrawl so I'm stuck with my right hand.

    Unless you're ambidextrous then I suppose you could choose which hand you write with...

    CAN OF WORMS!!!!!!!!!

    ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 876 ✭✭✭Aurongroove


    It's an answer NOT the answer.
    I disagree with you.
    I think it is the answer and that no one has given any convincing argument to indicate otherwise.

    If you are gay, then being gay isn't a choice as it's the only dish on the menu. It's that simple.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,943 ✭✭✭wonderfulname


    What if you're somewhere in between but identify as gay?

    Is that me poking at the can of worms?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,293 ✭✭✭1ZRed


    What if you're somewhere in between but identify as gay?

    That's me. I'm more attracted to guys but I do still get with girls occasionally, usually when there's drink involved!

    As far as its a choice, of course not! I never wanted to attracted to men let alone be gay but I've grown to like that side of me a lot since then.

    Sometimes I wonder if homosexuality is genetic but then you look at identical twins - one can be straight and the other gay.

    This is my little theory on it, but I think genetics play a big role in it but real time events while in the womb (more exposure to different hormones and slight imbalances brought about by non genetic factors) shape the rest.

    The twins thing is interesting though. Although one could identify as gay, who's to say the other isn't attracted to men to some degree?
    Look at me, I fit between being gay and bi and I'm sure a lot of those cases could be the same. It's an interesting subject anyway but one thing I can tell you is that you're born with a preference you never choose one sex over another willingly.


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,538 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    I disagree with you.
    I think it is the answer and that no one has given any convincing argument to indicate otherwise.

    If you are gay, then being gay isn't a choice as it's the only dish on the menu. It's that simple.

    I haven't seen any convincing arguments that it is the only answer.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 58 ✭✭whattotdo


    1ZRed wrote: »

    As far as its a choice, of course not! I never wanted to attracted to men let alone be gay but I've grown to like that side of me a lot since then.

    Sometimes I wonder if homosexuality is genetic but then you look at identical twins - one can be straight and the other gay.

    I believe with identical twins both could have inherited the gay gene but it remained dormant in one of them.Also,whilst they come from the same gene pool they wouldn't be 100% alike therefore both wouldn't possess the exact same genetic make up imo.

    I've no problem been with gay,but I'm so bitter with the level of homophobia out there for something I was born into.If I see someone in trouble,pushing their car that's broken down for example.. sometimes I think will I help them?Nah,he/she's probably a homophob. sorry bit off topic just ranting


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,538 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    whattotdo wrote: »
    I believe with identical twins both could have inherited the gay gene but it remained dormant in one of them.Also,whilst they come from the same gene pool they wouldn't be 100% alike therefore both wouldn't possess the exact same genetic make up imo.

    I've no problem been with gay,but I'm so bitter with the level of homophobia out there for something I was born into.If I see someone in trouble,pushing their car that's broken down for example.. sometimes I think will I help them?Nah,he/she's probably a homophob. sorry bit off topic just ranting

    I know that there is a lot of homophobia out there but I think the way you seem to approach life is a bit unhealthy in my opinion. It seems like you just assume lot's of people are homophobic for no reason.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 58 ✭✭whattotdo


    I agree Mango Salsa,in a bad mood when I wrote that,not a true reflection of how I feel.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 919 ✭✭✭Pedant


    I believe that there is a spectrum of sexual orientation. I don't believe there are only a select few sexual orientations, such as "gay", "bisexual", "asexual", "pan-sexual" or "straight". It may be the case that each individual has their own unique orientation.

    If you were to see things from this perspective, then you could come to the conclusion that being (or identifying as) "gay" is a choice but your own unique sexual orientation in not a choice. That is to say that it is your choose to adhere to a absolute term, such as "gay", but in the reality your own sexual orientation is not so absolute. I think we should regard the words "gay" and "straight" as mere generalisations. Maybe my reasoning here is flawed.

    Anyway, I don't like labels; they can cause too much division.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,602 ✭✭✭Rick_


    Everyone will have their own answer for this, but personally, no it was not a choice. I was born liking men and my first ever sexual thought (and subsequent erection) when I was about 12 IIRC and was for a man I was watching on TV. Ever since then, it's been men only, I have never been sexually aroused by the sight or thought of a woman naked or sexily dressed. I have never felt confused about my sexuality either and did not go through a period of denial. I just thought that was normal to like guys, and I have ever since!

    That's just the way I am. Everyone's different. :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 876 ✭✭✭Aurongroove


    What if you're somewhere in between but identify as gay?

    Is that me poking at the can of worms?
    Not really, It's an honest angle, and a decent post. Self identity is a can of worms in itself yes, but it's not hopelessly untangle-able; so let's give it a go!:)

    I would say, ask yourself what is it to identify as gay but be somewhere in between?
    Presumably by "somewhere in between" you mean some form of mixed orientation or somewhere along the spectrum of sexual orientation and not at either extreme. And if that is so then you've answered your own question: If you identify yourself as gay, but you're somewhere in between then you're electing to identify yourself as gay. (you're quite literally somewhere in between but identifying as gay, as you said)


    This is the point that so often gets lost;

    If you are somewhere in between but you identify yourself as gay, it dosn't mean "the gay people" you now identify with suddenly become people who've chosen their orientation. The gay people who are just gay people who you're identifying with are still just gay and not by choice.
    You don't magically make being gay a choice for all the people for whom it wasn't a choice, by being somewhere in between, then identifying yourself as gay and claiming "it seems to be an issue of identity, there are no right answers".

    Now when people ask if "being gay is a choice". How much (for lack of a better word) 'dignity' are you asking those who are at the tip of the spectrum; gay and gay only to give up by insisting they should answer "oh, ehh... it seems like there isn't one answer, it seems like you can choose, ehh it wasn't a choice for me personally, ehh, I wish there was a definite answer, etc". IMO By trying to knock "being gay isn't a choice if you're gay" as an answers to the question It means you're (in a way) handing the burden of personal explanation onto those people who are just gay. All for the sake of better suiting the identity of "being gay" to those who are self admittedly somewhere in-between but identify as gay and not suiting it to those who are gay, and gay only.

    If you ask me, it's the people who are somewhere in-between but identify as gay that should have to carry the burden of the "terms and conditions" and not those who don't have a choice in their identity. Those who are Identifying as gay should have to say "no it isn't a choice for gay people, there is only the matter of choice of wither someone identifies as gay or not when they in fact fall somewhere in between".


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,602 ✭✭✭Rick_


    ^^^^^^^^

    I don't think I've ever read such a head-scratching post in my entire life! :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,338 ✭✭✭squishykins


    Paddy C wrote: »
    Everyone will have their own answer for this

    Exactly :) I'm bisexual so I went through the "normal" discovering boys when I was around 13, and I was sure I was bi by the time I was 15. But now when I think back to my childhood, there was a lot of signs that it was gonna happen, I just didn't pick up on it as a child :P


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 58 ✭✭whattotdo




  • Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    very interesting thread I must say.

    I have a fair few gay friends. And one of my male gay friends, who was with women up to his teenage years, then both, now only men. He thinks he was always gay, but obviously was afraid to come out for his own reason! Now he still comments on women and how hot they are etc etc, and flirts with women like mad too, but says he isnt sexually attracted to them anymore! No the strange thing is he is constantly with one female all the time, and its obvious to everyone they have chemistry, but dont think it is sexual well imo
    Was just wondering is it possible to to go back again, from being gay. Would this be bi sexual. Or is it possible for this gay man to be in love with this women but not sexual attracted.
    I personally find it very confusing.. I am just asking cause it just seems to be only about sex with him with other men, but not with women!


  • Registered Users Posts: 720 ✭✭✭kierank01




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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 58 ✭✭whattotdo


    Thanks for sharing that video,it's amazing the people who say that people chose to be gay, yet they didn't choose to be straight,they were born that way.
    I have no doubt that I was born gay,my uncle and two brothers say the same.
    A friend of mine attended LGBT parade in Belfast ,he spoke to a gay man whose son was with him who is also gay,so it could be a genetic link or just coincidence.He said they were so alike in terms of physical characteristics so why not same sexuality.He had his son when he was in a 'hetrosexual' relationship but he said he was always gay,only put on an act because for a while he didn't accept his sexuality.


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