Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

is RTE 2 HD Coming To Sky?

1235»

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 721 ✭✭✭MarkK


    mickko wrote: »
    If the carrier receives them for free, then the terms are that the carrier delivers them truly free, which in the case of cable, is possible and proven.
    Is it proven? What country has this system?
    How is it fair for a cable company to provide service to non subscribers?
    Are they expected to provide customer service and maintain cables for free?

    In reality they will have to hike the price for subscribers to cover the costs.
    mickko wrote: »
    Either of these scenarios have clarity and make sheer common sense.
    I don't think it makes common sense at all.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,056 ✭✭✭maggy_thatcher


    One option Sky have, that would probably work for about 90% of their subscribers, is to do what they do in Italy - they have the "Sky Digital Key" which plugs into the decoder box, allowing you to receive the DVB-T broadcasts into the regular planner/PVR capabilities of the Sky box. Then they could stop broadcasting RTÉ altogether, while still providing the rest of the features of their system.

    Except for those of us who don't have a decent rooftop aerial, this is probably the best of both worlds option that could be provided.


  • Registered Users Posts: 129 ✭✭mickko


    MarkK wrote: »
    No, they are not paying this extra fee (fee to RTE), they are paying extra compared to the UK but that money does not go to RTE.
    That's what I mean. RTE are getting nothing but supply them free, and UPC/SKY are profiting from something that should be free, but isn't.

    No matter what way you look at it, you have to pay either company for access.

    So if it's really free, supply it truly free.
    If its not, pay a royalty/contribution.

    BTW, this would be a considerably small fee, just like what Cable ops pay for BBC, C4, etc..


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,056 ✭✭✭maggy_thatcher


    mickko wrote: »
    That's what I mean. RTE are getting nothing but supply them free, and UPC/SKY are profiting from something that should be free, but isn't.

    They are only supplying it to people who already have a right to access the content already, but either can't (because of aerial/reception issues), or want a better user experience (e.g. built in PVR). We've already paid for our access once to RTÉ, why should somebody else have to pay for it as well? That doesn't make any sense.

    Paying for the right to distribute something to people who already have paid for the right to access seems weird. It's certainly not a "royalty" - that's normally for the right to use something that hasn't already been paid for.


  • Registered Users Posts: 129 ✭✭mickko


    MarkK wrote: »
    Is it proven? What country has this system?
    How is it fair for a cable company to provide service to non subscribers?
    Are they expected to provide customer service and maintain cables for free?

    It's in use on cable ops in several European countries, in an unencrypted format carrying the PSB's. There's a link to UPCs Czech Republic page.
    Although I don't know if it's truly free by hooking up non paying subs, I've outlined reasonable suggestions how this could work on a previous post on this thread.
    Go back a couple of pages and you'll find somewhere. Should cover all you're queries.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 129 ✭✭mickko


    They are only supplying it to people who already have a right to access the content already, but either can't (because of aerial/reception issues), or want a better user experience (e.g. built in PVR). We've already paid for our access once to RTÉ, why should somebody else have to pay for it as well? That doesn't make any sense.

    Surely you don't think that Sky or UPC are not profiting from the free use of RTE on their nets.
    Granted, there's no direct charge, but the customers are been charged for them, and paying.
    Sky in particular are doing a bomb thanks to RTE carriage.

    As one poster correctly pointed out earlier in the thread, having RTE is as important as the Premier league rights. Yet they pay nothing for them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,056 ✭✭✭maggy_thatcher


    mickko wrote: »
    Surely you don't think that Sky or UPC are not profiting from the free use of RTE on their nets.
    Granted, there's no direct charge, but the customers are been charged for them, and paying.

    I do think that Sky/UPC are profiting from the free use of RTÉ on their nets, but similarly, I don't think that DHL should give a kickback to Amazon every time somebody buys something from them, which is the same thing.

    I pay RTÉ for their content, and Sky for the carriage of that content. Why should Sky be obligated to pay a second time for the content?

    I believe that were RTÉ to turn around and start charging Sky for it, Sky would do one of two things:
    1. Pass the charge on to customers who want RTÉ from Sky (maybe make it an optional extra package)
    2. Use a DVB-T USB key the same way that they do in Italy to avoid the whole thing, and pass the buck of carriage of RTÉ to RTÉNL


  • Registered Users Posts: 129 ✭✭mickko


    1. Pass the charge on to customers who want RTÉ from Sky (maybe make it an optional extra package)
    This would certainly never happen.
    RTE is the golden egg in Sky's basket, and they would not want to jeopardize the manner in which it's included as standard with any pack.

    Personally I feel Sky would gladly absorb any reasonable fee to keep this scenario going.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,211 ✭✭✭chris_ie


    So you can now get RTE HD via Saorview for free if you want RTE. Therefore people cant complain about having to pay Sky in order to get it. Those who want sport, movies etc can still get Sky. I dont have Saorview (I have SkyHD) so I'd love RTE HD to come on Sky, although I don't watch it an that much. But I don't see the problem. You'd think Sky were the only way to receive the channel and they were charging you massively for it...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 114 ✭✭Markdub2000


    The subscribtion price didn't change when they added RTE, therefore, they are not charging anything additional for it.

    The reason RTE are on the platform now, is as a previous poster mentioned, the decline of advertising revenue at RTE due to their absence on the platform.

    With the ability to control epg line up and channels, sky and others were able to stream dubplicate channels to different card regions with regional advertising.

    It started to eat heavily into rte's revenue stream as market research indicated people did not switch platforms during normal viewing, i.e. if you were using a sky box, you were highly unlikely to switch to terrestrial tv, unless there was a significant event on.

    RTE found it had to worm its way onto the platform.

    Hopefully Saorview and Saorsat will fix the gap - RTE for Saorview, Sky for Sky, in my opinion RTE are not worthy of their present position on the epg, or the platform for that matter.

    The good news is that they are now FREE on Saor Sat and Saor view - there is no longer a need for their presence on sky, but I bet their advertisers will have a different opinion if they were pulled.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    RTE gets highest viewing figures in Ireland.
    82% of people have Pay TV (UPC, Sky and some smaller ones).

    So your post is unfounded.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,490 ✭✭✭pegasus1


    Are sky not setting up their own call center here, dropping the 3rd party icall center in cork.
    And if so won't they then have to pay Irish vat for Irish subscriptions, being that will have to set up a sky Ireland company?


  • Registered Users Posts: 45,762 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    From reading previous posts I dont believe anyone knows for sure where Sky pay there VAT at present.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,452 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    This from an Oireachtas Committee discussion back in 2008
    Senator Joe O’Toole: ... I have written to RTE many times and Mr. Goan will be pleased to hear that I have a letter ready to go to the Chairman of the committee. It says that the amount of VAT that Irish people are paying to Sky for satellite is €100 million, all of which is going to the UK and only because RTE has done a deal with Sky preventing any other provider——

    Mr. Cathal Goan: That is absolutely wrong.

    Senator Joe O’Toole: I would be happy to be contradicted. The fact that Sky is the only company that can provide RTE on satellite is depriving this jurisdiction of €100 million in VAT. Many people receive satellite because of the better reception and would like to receive RTE in this way. Money that would go to the State is being lost. RTE is at the end of its contract with the providers, Sky, and there should be an open market in providing free-to-air satellite access to RTE, TV3 and TG4.

    http://debates.oireachtas.ie/MAJ/2008/11/05/00003.asp


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,757 ✭✭✭lawhec


    Because of the nature of such deals requiring commercial confidentiality between Sky and the likes of MTV, Discovery, UKTV etc. along with RTÉ, TV3 and TG4, no one in the public domain can really know what exactly is stated in the terms between the Irish (Republic) terrestrial broadcasters and their agreement to be broadcast on the Sky platform.

    The only thing that is known is that Sky rent capacity from SES Astra to broadcast the four respective channels to subscribers and that there is other, non-Irish content on that transponder as well. This is unlike the UK PSBs of the BBC, ITV Network, Channel 4 and Channel 5 who directly negotiate with SES Astra and Eutelsat for capacity and then deal with Sky and Freesat for EPG placement.

    Since RTÉ1, RTÉ2, TV3 and TG4 all appeared on Sky at around the same time, it may be possible that there are clauses in the respective contracts that cannot be changed unless all parties involved agree - for example, RTÉ may well wish to offer Sky RTÉ2 HD for the platform, but TV3 have a clause allowing them to object to any new RTÉ TV services appearing for the remainder of the period of the deal (before anyone starts, this is hypothetical - I am not saying that TV3 actually are blocking it!). Another one could be that Sky are interested in carrying RTÉ2 HD, but RTÉ insist that if they want to, it should be available all subscribers without the additional HD charge of €15 (as is the case in the UK with the PSB channels in HD and BBC HD) and as the current deal doesn't give specific clauses, it's deadlock.

    Might also be the case that RTÉ would also want carriage of RTÉ1 +1, RTÉ Jr & News Now etc. We can only guess until press releases are made or leaks get into the wild.


  • Registered Users Posts: 129 ✭✭mickko


    €100 million! Per Annum?
    Does this mean the total amount leaving the state per annum is about half a billion?!


  • Registered Users Posts: 902 ✭✭✭twinklerunner


    mickko wrote: »
    €100 million! Per Annum?
    Does this mean the total amount leaving the state per annum is about half a billion?!

    How does 100 million equal half a billion? :(


  • Moderators, Regional North West Moderators Posts: 19,088 Mod ✭✭✭✭byte
    byte


    How does 100 million equal half a billion? :(
    He's including the whole subscription fee, not just the 100m VAT at 20%.

    So yeah, 500m is leaving the country, 400m to Sky, 100m to UK Exchequer.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,099 ✭✭✭John mac


    if 100 mil = 20% 100% would = ?

    Edit:- Beaten to it :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,601 ✭✭✭200motels


    I see that UPC are getting RTE2HD tomorrow, I'll bet Sky will have it soon.


  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,677 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    Any word on when RTE will switch to HD broadcasting on most of it's programming across both channels, such as news, documentarys and live tv broadcasts?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,960 ✭✭✭Ranicand


    200motels wrote: »
    I see that UPC are getting RTE2HD tomorrow, I'll bet Sky will have it soon.

    I bet you they don't.

    I switched to Sky last year I was fed up after UPC lost the ITV channels.

    UPC now have the ITV channels and now the extra RTE channels plus a better EPG running order.

    However Sky has way more HD.

    I always feel I am missing out no-matter what provider I pick.:)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭STB


    lawhec wrote: »
    Another one could be that Sky are interested in carrying RTÉ2 HD, but RTÉ insist that if they want to, it should be available all subscribers without the additional HD charge of €15 (as is the case in the UK with the PSB channels in HD and BBC HD) and as the current deal doesn't give specific clauses, it's deadlock.

    Might also be the case that RTÉ would also want carriage of RTÉ1 +1, RTÉ Jr & News Now etc. We can only guess until press releases are made or leaks get into the wild.

    This is the basis of the must carry rule under Section 77 of the Broadcasting Act having passed must offer. Sky in this instance must pick up all carriage costs. They cant be recovered from the subscriber!

    Broadcasting Act 2009 Section 77 (13) Arrangements entered into under subsection (12) shall not result in an additional charge on any subscriber to a satellite television service by reason of the making available to that subscriber of any must-offer service by way of the satellite television service.

    Good question about the pick and choose scenario that may arise.

    (4)An appropriate network provider shall re-transmit each national sound broadcasting service provided for the time being by RTÉ and each sound broadcasting contractor and which RTÉ or the contractor concerned requests the holder to so re-transmit.


  • Registered Users Posts: 52 ✭✭franciec


    Supposed to be launching today.

    http://www.siliconrepublic.com/new-media/item/27191-rt-two-hd-to-launch-today/

    No sign on my EPG yet, maybe it'll appear later on.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,981 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    Originally Posted by lawhec
    Another one could be that Sky are interested in carrying RTÉ2 HD, but RTÉ insist that if they want to, it should be available all subscribers without the additional HD charge of €15 (as is the case in the UK with the PSB channels in HD and BBC HD) and as the current deal doesn't give specific clauses, it's deadlock.

    Might also be the case that RTÉ would also want carriage of RTÉ1 +1, RTÉ Jr & News Now etc. We can only guess until press releases are made or leaks get into the wild.

    From what I read RTÉ have the right to insist that each of their FTA channels are carried.
    STB wrote: »
    This is the basis of the must carry rule under Section 77 of the Broadcasting Act having passed must offer. Sky in this instance must pick up all carriage costs. They cant be recovered from the subscriber!

    Broadcasting Act 2009 Section 77 (13) Arrangements entered into under subsection (12) shall not result in an additional charge on any subscriber to a satellite television service by reason of the making available to that subscriber of any must-offer service by way of the satellite television service.

    Good question about the pick and choose scenario that may arise.

    (4)An appropriate network provider shall re-transmit each national sound broadcasting service provided for the time being by RTÉ and each sound broadcasting contractor and which RTÉ or the contractor concerned requests the holder to so re-transmit.

    I understand that to refer to audio (radio) broadcasts and not TV. :( It is showing as (6) on the copy I accessed :(

    Where a retransmission under must offer/must carry occurs, it appears that the re-transmitter must also carry other channels such as the Houses of the Oireachtas Channel and the Irish Film Channel as well as possibly some community channels, if appropriate.

    The act clearly indicates that EACH FTA channel must be carried

    Sect. 77
    (4) An appropriate network provider shall ensure the re-transmission, by or through his or her appropriate network, of each freeto-air television service provided for the time being by RTE´ , TG4 and the free-to-air service provided under section 70 by the television service programme contractor which that body or contractor requests the appropriate network provider to so re-transmit.

    The interpretation of this part is what really interests me .....
    (11) Without prejudice to the requirements imposed under subsection (4), RTE´ , TG4 and the television service programme contractor shall ensure that their must-offer services are at all times offered for re-transmission (subject to agreement as to fair, reasonable and non-discriminatory terms of use) by means of any appropriate network that is available for reception in an intelligible form by members of the public in the whole of or in part of the State.

    I am not sure how the emboldened part should/could be interpreted.

    For instance is it discriminatory that a Sky subscriber, whose sub has lapsed, cannot access the FTA Irish channels using the same equipment which was used while his sub was current?


  • Registered Users Posts: 721 ✭✭✭MarkK


    Sky is regulated in the UK not here, so they do not need to abide by the Broadcasting Act 2009.

    Whether or not RTE 2 SD and RTE 2 HD are two "services" or one is debatable.
    Saorview and Saorsat only provide one version of RTE 2, to me that implies there is only one "RTE 2" service, not two.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,981 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    MarkK wrote: »
    Sky is regulated in the UK not here, so they do not need to abide by the Broadcasting Act 2009.

    It is my understanding that Sky gets access to the Irish channels under the terms of the Broadcasting Act ...... and so they must be governed by the terms of that act where applicable.


    Whether or not RTE 2 SD and RTE 2 HD are two "services" or one is debatable.
    Saorview and Saorsat only provide one version of RTE 2, to me that implies there is only one "RTE 2" service, not two.


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 11,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭icdg


    Thread closed. No dragging up old threads and NO MORE THREADS ON RTE TWO HD PLEASE.


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement