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The Ultimate Irish Hunting Knife

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  • Registered Users Posts: 563 ✭✭✭davymoore


    Yes, Sat 22nd only
    Not suggesting for a second that anybody would or should use a boning knife in the field. My fear is that too much emphasis is being put on the look of the knife and what kind of handle it will have as opposed to the practicalities of the knife. A knife is a tool to you and I, the same way a spanner is to a mechanic. I just want it to do the job and i think this is a good project. It would be nice to get a good practical knife from this and if it looks great all the better.

    Just found your site Davy, beautiful looking knives. Don't get me wrong, i love beautifully crafted knives. I just have different priorities to most people i suppose when selecting a knife. It wasn't you i met at Birr:)

    Sound John
    There is always going to be a battle with form over function. Achieving the right mixture is what knifemakers have been trying to do for centuries. We are bold enough to think that we can do it in one small project [wish us luck :D]
    As a knife maker I tend to concentrate on the fit and finish I know what steels I prefer to use and why. I know what I like to look for in a knife. I am trying to find out what others look for.

    Now I am not dismissing function ... but temporarily I would like to discuss form and why it's important to this project.

    Look at the following knives and see if you can tell just by looking where they come from

    japanese-swords-samurai-swords-tanto-cold-steel.jpg


    samekn1.jpg

    bowie%20stag%20gents.jpg

    istockphoto_105176_antique_arabic_old_dagger.jpg

    xl_SgainDubhSetno._00047.jpg



    Why cant we do this for an Irish knife ?

    Whether it be fixed or folding, Wouldn't it be nice if aswell as red hot reliable functionality we could look at a piece and say that's one of those Irish knives.


  • Registered Users Posts: 563 ✭✭✭davymoore


    Yes, Sat 22nd only
    To illustrate the point above I will share with you a recent experience on another Blades board the thread was started with the question..

    Is there an ethnic Irish Knife ?

    Two posts quickly followed with the following pictures

    spoon.jpg

    3882620_large.jpg

    This is one of the reasons I wanted to start this project


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,930 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Davvy,
    I spent a lot of time last nite and over the years looking for an answer to that one.Realistically NO.I cant find any evidence to suggest that there ever was a specific blade form that was quintisentially Irish in design. The most notable Irish design on swords and daggers in Irish history is the ring pommel.That is mostly around the 15/16 century.
    Most blades found on archelogical digs seem to suggest viking and/or norman design.What is more associated with Irish blades is the Gallowglass axe,which was a 6ft plus staffed axe,and the Gallowglass were Scottish mercenaries on contract here in Ireland.So that is even an import.By and large we wernt much for knives or swords,we seem to have been more into spears or darts.With the Darts,which seem to be described somthing like the Chinese martial art weapon the flying knife.[Basically a 12in blade attached to appx 10/15 ft of rope].But the blade form seems to be lost in the mists of time.
    So apart from the Ring pommel,which would look good on the beautiful Irish knife,and useless on the ultimate Irish hunting knife. Unless somone can point out a traditional shape.The "Irish" blade shape is open to whatever we want it to be.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 600 ✭✭✭greenpeter


    The second knief in the middle picture is like one i seen been made on ray mears when he was in norway i think. Would be a nice touch if the handle could be made out of irish deer antlers


  • Registered Users Posts: 563 ✭✭✭davymoore


    Yes, Sat 22nd only
    Trust me I've done more than a few hours on this myself :( and to no avail.

    I find lots of info on weapons but not on the knife as a tool but we must have had knives surely. How did we prepare meat or slice bread? It is possible that we traded with the Saxons, Normans or Vikings but would this be able to account for every knife that was in use in the country ? And why have no specimens survived.

    The Seaxe comes up a lot and as a weapon it was fairly formidable but really would have no practical field use today.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 380 ✭✭lordarpad


    Maybe, I don't know yet.
    have a look at the bronze age stuff in the National museum maybe?


  • Registered Users Posts: 35,523 ✭✭✭✭Gordon


    Just a quick aside, but reading this thread made me think of what the biggest swiss army knife is. I found it on the internet, and apparently it exists and is not a photoshop:

    wenger_giant_swiss_army_knife_2.jpg

    worlds_biggest_swissarmy2.JPG




  • That's one hell of a Swiss Army knife!

    As to the poll, overall, I prefer a fixed blade to a folding one, however it's important for me to emphasise that each have their place, not just in hunting, but in general use too.

    For example, when I'm making walking sticks, I usually use one folding knife from the begging of the process to the end.

    On a last note, great thread Davy, thanks for starting it!


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,930 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    I find lots of info on weapons but not on the knife as a tool but we must have had knives surely. How did we prepare meat or slice bread? It is possible that we traded with the Saxons, Normans or Vikings but would this be able to account for every knife that was in use in the country ? And why have no specimens survived.

    Very good question.But from any illustrations I can find,the "domestic knife"of medival times seems to be a miniturised seaxe design.IOW a Blade that has a large base that works to a very fine point.
    The Seaxe comes up a lot and as a weapon it was fairly formidable but really would have no practical field use today[/QUOTE

    Although I am quite fond of a knife with a slight curve and a Belly up front and clip point,[ala a Bolo machete]works somwhat like a axe in gutting for breaking the pelvic bone.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,684 ✭✭✭macadam


    Yes, Sun 23rd only
    Davy,

    My ideal irish handcrafted knife would be similar to the crown series Deer skinner from Silver Stag(www.silverstagknives.com ), you could replace the handle with goat horn ,from one of the Pucks in Killorglin, to me that would be a real treasure.

    I think we should all post pictures of knives we have,and specify our likes and dislikes of the various knives.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,612 ✭✭✭jwshooter


    macadam wrote: »
    Davy,

    My ideal irish handcrafted knife would be similar to the crown series Deer skinner from Silver Stag(www.silverstagknives.com ), you could replace the handle with goat horn ,from one of the Pucks in Killorglin, to me that would be a real treasure.

    I think we should all post pictures of knives we have,and specify our likes and dislikes of the various knives.

    a fine knife to collect but not to use or carry as a every day tool .


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,684 ✭✭✭macadam


    Yes, Sun 23rd only
    JW,

    I thought this thread was on hunting knives , hence the title The Ultimate Irish Hunting Knife.

    Everday tool/knife has to be the old reliable swiss or the leatherman.

    The silver stag is a great hunting knife have one for years,but the sharpest tool in the box has to be the Cold Steel, Roach belly,friend of mine has skinned 8 deer and its still as sharp as new, I have one and it would shave you better than any wilkinson sword.


  • Registered Users Posts: 38,920 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Maybe, I don't know yet.
    Davy, first of all, I think this is a great project and wish you all the best.
    Fixed or fold, there are pro and cons to each. I prefer folding knives for the reasons mentioned. But from a design point of view, a fixed blade would be easier to make unique and "Irish"

    The knives from around the world are mostly period knives, I think it would be a bad idea to try to apply an historic feel or image to our knife here. I have a background in design and see that approach slot, it's generally a bad idea.


  • Registered Users Posts: 972 ✭✭✭mallards


    Yes, Sun 23rd only
    Great idea Davy. I was thinking of the handle being made up of materials from the four provinces and unique to them. E.G Connemmara marble from Connaught, Gold inlay or banding from Ulster, horn from a puck goat from Munster and deer antler from a stag from Leinster.

    Just a thought,

    Mallards.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 270 ✭✭John Griffin


    macadam wrote: »
    JW,

    I thought this thread was on hunting knives , hence the title The Ultimate Irish Hunting Knife.

    Everday tool/knife has to be the old reliable swiss or the leatherman.

    The silver stag is a great hunting knife have one for years,but the sharpest tool in the box has to be the Cold Steel, Roach belly,friend of mine has skinned 8 deer and its still as sharp as new, I have one and it would shave you better than any wilkinson sword.

    Knives are tools to some people and ornaments to be put in glass cabinets or worn in public by others. I work with knives so they are tools. The knives i use get a rub of a steel every day. In a day i could gralloch and field dress up to 30 deer. When used properly my knife will last all day. People that i let use my knife always comment on how sharp it is. You don't need to spend a fortune to have a good knife or a good edge. Most of the time you are paying for a fancy handle. A fancy handle does not make a good knife.

    We do not have a tradional Irish knife, nor can we create one. We can design a fixed blade knife with a similar blade to hundreds of others with a fancy handle, it will do the same as hundreds of other fixed blades. Or we can design a knife that does not exist yet. We can take the best features of the swiss locking knives i described earlier and refine those features to give a unique knife that is totally functional, unique and new.


  • Registered Users Posts: 380 ✭✭lordarpad


    Maybe, I don't know yet.
    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    Very good question.But from any illustrations I can find,the "domestic knife"of medival times seems to be a miniturised seaxe design.IOW a Blade that has a large base that works to a very fine point.
    The Seaxe comes up a lot and as a weapon it was fairly formidable but really would have no practical field use today[/QUOTE

    Although I am quite fond of a knife with a slight curve and a Belly up front and clip point,[ala a Bolo machete]works somwhat like a axe in gutting for breaking the pelvic bone.

    Grizzly I second the seaxe, this is what i have seen too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,102 ✭✭✭Hibrion


    Maybe, I don't know yet.
    Hi, havnt really posted much but this caught my eye and I am very interested in knives.

    For me a hunting knife has to fullfill numerous tasks and I find the best blade a fixed blade to be about 5 to 7 inches, and a good wide blade so it will stand the test of time.
    A good straight blade you can put your weight behind for heavy cuts is good and I have a loathing for those partially serated blades that pretty much render them useless to me.
    With regards to the handle I think it would be hard to imrove on mallards suggestions, the four provinces thing, cool idea; as long as it could be made functionally and a good ergonomical shape that provides good grip.

    On the making it Irish side of things why not add some Ogham lettering along the length of the blade?? Your name, or something to do with huning or Irish heritage; kind of like the way katanas are stamped along the blade with some form of inscription in Japan.
    With the sheath i think it would have to be made out of deer skin. I quite like the Norweigan style sheath for keeping the knife in place while out, not a big fan of those clippy botton things. Thick leather stitching in the sheath always looks well I think, but thats just a personal prefferrence and a style thing.

    Hope this rant helps.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,102 ✭✭✭Hibrion


    Maybe, I don't know yet.
    A possible solution to the problem of the sheath of a fixed blade sheath causing discomfort maybe to have it so it can be worn in the noram l upright possition or mounted sideways so it can be worn at the back of a belt without any real discomfort??


  • Registered Users Posts: 563 ✭✭✭davymoore


    Yes, Sat 22nd only
    We do not have a tradional Irish knife, nor can we create one.

    Were hardy giving up already ? We havent even decided on the first feature.


    Remember that Alan Wood only 25 years ago created a knife for Ray Mears.
    The "Woodlore" Knife quickly gained popularity and is now considered to be The Ultimate British Bushcraft Tool.

    It can be done ... We've got some really good ideas coming through already

    Regards
    Davy


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,684 ✭✭✭macadam


    Yes, Sun 23rd only
    Dont forget a wee bit of history in the handle , ie a piece of waterford crystal.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 38,920 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Maybe, I don't know yet.
    davymoore wrote: »
    Were hardy giving up already ? We havent even decided on the first feature.


    Remember that Alan Wood only 25 years ago created a knife for Ray Mears.
    The "Woodlore" Knife quickly gained popularity and is now considered to be The Ultimate British Bushcraft Tool.

    It can be done ... We've got some really good ideas coming through already

    Regards
    Davy
    I think you missed his point.
    We can make a knife, to the design that we want.
    And that knife might become very popular over time. Even the most popular.
    It still won't be a "traditional" irish knife. There isn't one, and would be near impossible to create one now.
    That said, we should still try to make the best knife possible.


    Has the fixed or folder debate been decided yet?


  • Registered Users Posts: 380 ✭✭lordarpad


    Maybe, I don't know yet.
    Mellor wrote: »
    Has the fixed or folder debate been decided yet?

    see top of page ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,410 ✭✭✭✭Blazer


    I think the "fixed" vote has it...so onto the next question?


  • Registered Users Posts: 38,920 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Maybe, I don't know yet.
    lordarpad wrote: »
    see top of page ;)
    Not all votes are equal :D:D:D


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,684 ✭✭✭macadam


    Yes, Sun 23rd only
    Lets get this Ultimate Irish Knife , onto the drawing board, cant fupping wait for the finished product .


  • Registered Users Posts: 122 ✭✭wicklow newbie


    Yes, Sun 23rd only
    Like the deer antler handle idea myself. Have one with this myself. It was given to me by a great uncle 20 years ago. Dont even bring it out for fear of losing it. Stick with the opinel for most stuff including fishing. Keeps quite a good edge too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 563 ✭✭✭davymoore


    Yes, Sat 22nd only
    Mellor wrote: »
    I think you missed his point.
    We can make a knife, to the design that we want.
    And that knife might become very popular over time. Even the most popular.
    It still won't be a "traditional" irish knife. There isn't one, and would be near impossible to create one now.
    That said, we should still try to make the best knife possible.


    Has the fixed or folder debate been decided yet?


    Are we giving up already ..... again ? because it's not a thousand years old is t less, more traditional ...................


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,793 ✭✭✭fish slapped


    Can we just say we're designing a knife with a distinctly Irish look and get to the drawing board?


  • Registered Users Posts: 942 ✭✭✭gofaster_s13


    How can a knife look Irish ??

    My user is a Swamp Rat knifeworks 4 1/2 inch fixed that gets used for everything from gardening to hunting and fishing. I also have a Busse knife but it doesnt ever get used.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 186 ✭✭seoirse1980


    Does anyone think that a good quality zipper should be included on the blade? I know a few people might not but I've found it very useful. Id love to see a fixed knife with a dropped point and an ornate but practical handle with a good quality leather sheath. Something that would last a lifetime.


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