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Krav Maga

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,448 ✭✭✭Roper


    Personally, I wouldn't fancy training anywhere where I was encouraged to poke a lads eyes!

    But you have a good point about the debunking of "street techniques". It annoys me sometimes when people say things like, hit him there, fight over! Without any way of proving it save, they claim, killing someone, these techniques almost pass into urban legend.

    Just a small story:
    A lad who I went to school with who though he was a bit of a hard man because he did martial arts (can't remember which one) used to have all these "magic bullet" moves and stories. One of his favourite was "palm heel to the nose, push the nose into the brain!!" (imagine a hulk hogan face here)
    Anyhoo, he started row one day and a fight was set up with another lad (after school type thing). He strode up to the lad and palm heeled him as hard as he could, right under the nose. The other lad said, ow, then he started to hit back. We didn't hear so much martial arts chat after that!

    Merry Christmas!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭columok


    I'm sorry to be so blunt and harsh but if that video clip represents KM, it being Mr. Cumiskey and all, then I have to say the stuff they are teaching is rubbish pure and simple! The mount escape was rubbish and the headlock escapes laughable.

    This KM 12 Week myth is rubbish. It takes a long time to become able to defend yourself fully aswell as consistent "top-up" training. You need to understand the fundamentals of ground, clinch and standup to be able to add dirty tricks to your overall fighting ability! A good MMA fighter might be able to add KM elements into their overall fighting style but I doubt that an unfit businessman or businesswoman would be able to do the same!

    Also with regards to MMA as a sport vs. Krav Maga as a "life or death" fighting system- look at old skool Brazilian Vale Tudo matches where the only rules were no biting and no gouging and notice that the fights look fairly similar to modern MMA. The only difference is that modern MMA fighters are more well rounded.

    The delivery system is the same whether I want to punch an opponent in the face or whether I want to punch them in the throat. I still need to know how to punch to be able to do either. If we think about this rationally it makes sense intuitively. I would ask how Krav Maga manages to transcend this common sense!

    Also:

    HAPPY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,859 ✭✭✭logic1


    columok wrote:
    I'm sorry to be so blunt and harsh but if that video clip represents KM, it being Mr. Cumiskey and all, then I have to say the stuff they are teaching is rubbish pure and simple! The mount escape was rubbish and the headlock escapes laughable.

    Couldn't agree more. I watched that video today and 5 minutes later my brother showed me a self defence video made by Bas Rutten.

    Absolutely no comparison. For a start when watching Bas his subject (pretend bad guy) didn't jump around like he was making the latest blockbuster with Sylvester Stallone and Bas' technique and implentation was clearly designed for the street. Bas also obviously doesn't like the cakes as much as Crap Maga Cumiskey.

    I also find it extremly suspicious that almost all posters singing the praises of Krav Maga are newbies to boards and sound like late night american QVC shopping channel adverts.

    .logic.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,604 ✭✭✭blondie83


    logic1 wrote:
    I also find it extremly suspicious that almost all posters singing the praises of Krav Maga are newbies to boards and sound like late night american QVC shopping channel adverts.

    .logic.

    I'm glad someone else noticed that, thought I was the only one! :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,864 ✭✭✭uberpixie


    columok wrote:
    I'm sorry to be so blunt and harsh but if that video clip represents KM, it being Mr. Cumiskey and all, then I have to say the stuff they are teaching is rubbish pure and simple! The mount escape was rubbish and the headlock escapes laughable.

    This KM 12 Week myth is rubbish. It takes a long time to become able to defend yourself fully aswell as consistent "top-up" training. You need to understand the fundamentals of ground, clinch and standup to be able to add dirty tricks to your overall fighting ability! A good MMA fighter might be able to add KM elements into their overall fighting style but I doubt that an unfit businessman or businesswoman would be able to do the same!

    In all honesty KM is geared to people who don't have the time, or are to lazy, to train in traditional MA. It is only meant to be a very sparse course teaching people stuff they will remember easily. So yeah a 12 week course!

    It should at least give an unfit, untrained person the first hit in and give them a chance to run away. Thats what it is designed to do. Not prepare them to stand toe to toe with Mike Tyson or Pav Mc Knacer for 6 rounds.

    In all honesty though I will be sticking to TKD. I would have been interested in taking up KM on the side out of interest but after seeing those clips not a hope! €375 would be better spent else where.

    It looks like rubbish. I really don't think that mount escape would work for a woman if the guy on top was resisting properly and had a death grip on her wrists.

    I will stick to my funny pjamas, counting in korean, learning my patterns and sparring.

    With my sparring, while i might be pulling my strikes and i might not be trying to gouge out my partners eyes, at least i will be perfecting my timing, learing to vary my strikes, increasing my stamina, learn to protect my head from a few belts, learn to read basic body language and most importantly improving my footwork.

    It's all well and good learing palm strikes, it's no good if you can't get in close enough inside someones gaurd to land them!

    Seriously €375 euro for stuff that may or may not work? I will stick to my TKD. I will have a SLIGHTLY better chance of surviving an assult, at the very least I will be fitter than the smoe learing KM and at least run faster and for longer!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Musashi


    Think your on the right track Uber!
    Spend 100 euro on a pair on runners and spend the next 12 weeks training the 100 metres and you'll be better prepared with "an instinctive response" to aggression.Also,the other 275 euro you can forward to me for this excellent and elite self defense advice!


    I also find it extremly suspicious that almost all posters singing the praises of Krav Maga are newbies to boards and sound like late night american QVC shopping channel adverts.

    So which one of them is Mr. Comiskey,or is it both?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,577 ✭✭✭Colm_OReilly


    I think we should leave ad hominem attacks out of this thread. But anyway on the subject of instructors and their physiques people will be attracted to an ma if the instructor is similar to them or similar to the ideal of what they want to be when doing the ma. So do you want to attract athletes/people who want to get in shape, or skinny boys who want to learn secret death touches?

    uberpixie,

    Where do you train at in Limerick? You should give Tim Murphy a shout, iutflimerick@yahoo.co.uk
    He's a cool guy and has some good training methods.

    Peace and Love Y'All,
    Colm


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,864 ✭✭✭uberpixie


    uberpixie,

    Where do you train at in Limerick? You should give Tim Murphy a shout, iutflimerick@yahoo.co.uk
    He's a cool guy and has some good training methods.
    Colm


    Training out in UL with the UL TKD club at the mo.


  • Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 26,928 Mod ✭✭✭✭rainbow kirby


    So you'll be up in UCD in February for the Intervarsities then? :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 412 ✭✭Ger Healy


    Yea Tim calls into Philip Fox and myself and a few others in UL on Monday at 8.45pm for a roll, it was great to hear how well he did at the KOTR2

    Been reading this thread for the last few days and the thing that I see from all the post is that their are is room in society for all of these SD course and MA that claim to teach SD. It weather you are foolish enough to think that only after a short period of time of training you have suddenly acquired the skills to be able to defend yourself given all the variables in a street fight then fair play to you
    For me I like this spin on it and that is that to train only for SD is to train in a negative manner.
    When your walking down the street you’re only though is SD thought.
    This is not healthy
    Much better to train because you enjoy it and in the process you learn skills that may help you if required


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,448 ✭✭✭Roper


    Theres no point in getting into name calling here. If somebody wants to sell tiddlywinks as a viable form of self defence, then best of luck to them. As the oldest saying in the book goes, "buyer beware". Its entirely up to whoever wants to go do this kind of course to either go or not.
    The danger comes later, and the unfortunate thing about this subject is that it's not a QVC channel coffee maker we're talking about. If I spend my cash on one of those and it doesn't work, then so be it I know better for next time. When you talk about self defence, and your 12 week course doesn't work, you may not get a second chance.

    Theres another saying too of course, "sold as seen". And like anything on the market, be it a car, a toaster or a self defence course, you'd want to see it working or see some proof of it before buying wouldn't you? If there's no sparring how can you see that? And seeing "the instructor" demonstrating is no good either, you'd expect him to be good. It's how effective it'd be for you thats the question, not wether some bouncer who's been on the door for 12 years can use it!

    "Quote:
    I also find it extremly suspicious that almost all posters singing the praises of Krav Maga are newbies to boards and sound like late night american QVC shopping channel adverts.

    So which one of them is Mr. Comiskey,or is it both"

    Well, you could just check the ip addresses and see if they had the same source, if you were a mod


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 187 ✭✭Im2Lazy


    I have noticed a lot of people keeps mentioning the PREJUDICES against Trad MA
    "Foreign language/Instructor,silly pyjamas,katas,unrealistic responses to attacks,boards don't hit back yadda yadda"
    but there seems to be a lot of prejudice towards Krav Maga the main one being that it's just a 12 week course (as I previously said you can continue training after if you wish)
    Why is this such an issue? as Musashi (a TKD instructor) said
    Give me 12 weeks with a student drilling them in good hard basics along with situational awareness and some scenario based training and I'm pretty happy they would go away thinking the same way. - orignally posted by Musashi a TKD instructor

    If a TKD instructor could do it if he wanted to with the correct training, why then is it so hard to believe that a Krav Maga instructor (Mr Cumiskey) can't do it particularly since he has been specifically trained in a form of MA which was developed to be taught EXACTLY like that.

    Now if you'll excuse me I need to practice my tiddlywinks !!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,693 ✭✭✭pma-ire


    Lads...

    "After starting Martial Arts I realised that a punch was not just a punch and a kick was not just a kick. Then after training for a few years I realised that a punch was just a punch and a kick was just a kick"

    It all works and all stand up styles have the same techs just with different accents :D They even have links with ground styles if looked into.

    What I do hate to see though is the words "Ultimate", "World Best", "Supreme" being used in MA's promos. It's a thing I like to refer to as "The Carlsberg Effect".


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 24 Coupe


    OK first of all an answer to a couple of frankley stupid posts: I am not Mr Cuminskey! I know for a fact Im2lazy is not Mr Cumiskey so lets park that one and stop taking cheap shots cos it suits our agendas.
    Secondly, Mr O'Reilly as an instructor and obviously someone who is passionate about MA, I am surprised and frankly disapointed to hear you take such a cheap shot at Patrick based on an mpeg and hysterical comment on this thread. You know nothing about the man or his background. At best you should know better! At the very least you should have the capacity to have an open mind and be at least willing to try a new disipline before casting aspersions on its validity and on those who subscribe to it (personally I put in 16 hours of mixed training a week which I suspect is considerably more than most of your students).
    This kind of narrow minded predjudice and self congratulation is precisely the reason I chose KM over your traditional MA as it dispenses with the bullsh1t which is clearly part and parcel of protecting the pyjamas and grading nonsense. However I will conceed that it is a case of each to their own and if thats the path you chose good luck to you I hope you enjoy it. This thread started with a question. I believe it has been answered. Anyone who reads this thread can now make up their own mind. I certinaly don't feel any further need to defend my choice and perpetuate the myth that you need to study MA for years before it's of any use to you....
    A happy and peaceful new year to you all.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,604 ✭✭✭blondie83


    Coupe wrote:
    This kind of narrow minded predjudice and self congratulation is precisely the reason I chose KM over your traditional MA as it dispenses with the bullsh1t which is clearly part and parcel of protecting the pyjamas and grading nonsense.

    Emmm...Colm doesn't do a TMA, he studies Mixed martial Arts, and instructs in Brazilian Jujutsu. I'd imagine he has even less of an interest in the "protecting the pyjamas and grading nonense" then yourself.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,577 ✭✭✭Colm_OReilly


    Coupe,

    I didn't attack Patrick Comiskey, and I said we shouldn't reduce this thread to personal attacks. I was responding to the subject of instructors and their physiques.

    As for deveoping self defence ability in 12 hours I cannot conceive of a way of developing skill in all three ranges that would allow you to competently defend yourself. I also understand just how difficult it is to demonstrate something on a 2 minute video clip but the techniques demonstrated were not realistic. If someone who has done KM would like to show that mount escape on me or someone I know who is capable on the ground I'd like to see it. This is not a challenge, I simply won't except anything with regards to ma without trying it firsthand.

    Peace Out,
    Colm


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭columok


    Coupe,

    1) Look up and form an understanding of what MMA or vale tudo is and then form opinions on why Colm is critical of KM (as I am).

    2) Look at the prevalence of the mounted position in MMA and consider that an MMA coach would likely teach escapes from that position and therefore be well able to evaluate the escapes of others! The mount escape shown on that TV3 show was rubbish. It wouldnt work. It would be obvious to you if you had ever been mounted and had someone punch you in the face repeatedly. Try that sh1t by all means but it will likely have you knocked out! MMA people (and BJJ people) have a good understanding of what its like to be mounted and what its like to escape mount. They know what works!

    3) MMA people do quite a bit of training every week especially lots of conditioning! What are your 16 hours consisting of?

    Cheers,

    Colum


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    belts?? we dont need no steeeeenking belts!!

    too much telly over de crimbo :D


    So what is it about KM that makes it so different from a martial art? From viewing that clip it looked just like what you're taught in jujutsu/hapkido etc class, and it was poor IMO. the only time they inserted some motion into the demo (ie realism) the girl went flying on her snot, but that was meant to happen of course :rolleyes:.

    Until i saw that clip i taught this KM stuff had some merit on what i'd read but looking at that the words "money" and "old rope" spring to mind


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Musashi


    Give me 12 weeks with a student drilling them in good hard basics along with situational awareness and some scenario based training and I'm pretty happy they would go away thinking the same way

    They would,as I said previously, feel capable of defending themselves.Hopefully they would have the sense to run like fook after 12 two hour classes! Hell, a weekend seminar could make people with no previous training feel they'd been shown the be all and end all of MA/Self Defense.
    Except the first time they get attacked and freeze solid,then proceed to be beaten and robbed, they will realise that something was very wrong.
    This may mean that what they were shown was rubbish.
    It was good information but presented and trained badly.
    That the student listened to all this talk of awareness and being switched on,and proceeded to get bombed drunk and wander around some rough area looking for a bit of aggro.
    I'm not saying 12 weeks of training is useless, anything is better then nothing.But to say a 12 week course will set you up for good,without drilling and working the techniques every week in a realistic manner,is wishful thinking at best.
    I can see it appealing to people looking for a quick fix and if it encourages them to taking up another combat sport to continue their training then fair play.If you don't like Pyjamas or bull why not go to a good boxing gym?It's been well tested in the ring at full contact and ha no bowing etc.
    But, if a person does this course and then decides they need never practice or train in any way again,as they have these killer moves as an instinctive reponse........
    The clip we saw was what Mr. Comiskey put up on his own website to promote what he teachs.I can only judge on what I have seen of his work.
    It would not encourage me to pay for further instruction from him.If he were to put up a more realistic training clip,maybe taken from his Bulletman class?
    And if Coupe or 2Lazy would like to get in touch with Mr. Comiskey I'm sure we'd all like to discuss this with him on the Forum, and to learn more about his background and experience in MA and KM.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,577 ✭✭✭Colm_OReilly


    Bambi,

    It occured to me just there I didn't reply to your post about "dirty" tactics. We exclue those dirty tactics because it's just not fun to train them, would be my first answer.

    When a beginner comes to train with us, I don't tell them "the rules". I'll give them an objective for that drill, eg 'Escape that guy pinning you in any way you can'. After a while they begin to understand how the body moves and works.

    Someone who can control your body, and learning how to control the body (hips and centreline) can be trained safely day in day out, really has no problem when someone tries "dirty" tactics. I've had people try to poke me in the eye, knee me in the crotch, and try to bite me while training. It has never been a problem for me. Depending on the individual and the intent behind it I've merely carried on to control/take down/submit them or I've slapped them in the face for their troubles.

    Does this explain it better?
    Colm


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,248 ✭✭✭Millionaire


    Some of you guys are serious into bashing KM on here.

    I am doing KM over 18 months now ( a few times a week). Before that I have done kickboxing for many years, and TKD for a few years, along with some kung fu, all in ireland and abroad. I still do a bit of kickboxing to keep sharp, though I would say KM is my main style now, as I am only interested in street self defense too.

    I think MMA is brilliant as a style. though I tend to think it may appeal to the very serious and fit type of martial arts person. Sure I have fought full contact kickboxing in the ring, but to be honest these days I would not fancy getting into a cage fight!!!!

    I have to say as an experienced martial artist both traditional and modern training systems, I still think KM is one of the better street orientated systems out there (along with MMA and other reality based systems that teach similar things). and I know what works in the street as I have (unfortunanely) put my money where my mouth is on that front a few times in my life time.

    As for the 12 week KM course, this is excellent for people who have no interest in full time martial trainig, to get a handful of simple techniques drilled into them, that may help if the get attacked, and there has been plenty of situations where students of this course have saved themselves.

    As for Patrick Cumiskey, as well as been a fully qualified KM instructor, he also has many years training behind him in both karate and other styles. and I can tell you he does not teach rubbish...no way.

    as for us, we all have our opinions of what works and does not. however remember what Joe Lewis said the great american martial artist, on of thew early full contact champs ever, a pioneer in martial arts, trained with bruce lee and many others. " I do not believe in styles, I believe in punches and kicks!"


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭columok


    I think MMA is brilliant as a style. though I tend to think it may appeal to the very serious and fit type of martial arts person. Sure I have fought full contact kickboxing in the ring, but to be honest these days I would not fancy getting into a cage fight!!!!
    9 out of 10 people who train dont compete. MMA isnt really a style also. Its similar to Joe Lewis's view in that its just punching kicking and grappling. MMA is simply what works. Different MMA gyms approach it differently but the over-riding principle is that you have to be able to fight wherever the fight goes.

    We were critical of the mount escapes because from our MMA experience they simply wouldnt work especially when a smaller person tries to use them against full resistance.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,248 ✭✭✭Millionaire


    I have only real learned ground fighting the past 2 years, so I am not an expert at all. I am 12 stone and fairly lean, I found myself I can get much bigger stronger guys off me, pinning me full blast doing the KM escapes. I would make sure the guy is going to come off me my hook or my crook if its the last thing I do!!!!. so could be the "attitude!" i adopt that helps me wprk the escapes.

    actually I think those ground escapes taught as part of KM in Ireland, and not from KM, but are from Jim Waegner in the USA who teaches reality fighting. there is a few extras added in on top of the KM training.

    however there will always be someone out there that could pin any of us and none of us regardless of "style" may not be able to escpae from, for many different reasons.

    find what works individually, practice strong and hard, have keep the "attitude " on!

    Cheers!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Musashi


    Lads,
    Rightly or wrongly I thought ,in the interests of fairness,we should hear from Mr. Comiskey himself.I got on to his website and mailed him,letting him know we had a discussion ongoing and inviting him to join in and present his teaching or whatever.
    I don't know if he will or not,but the offer has been made for him to come and at least have his say.
    I know I have been somewhat sceptical of his style, but I'd prefer to not be talking about the guy behind his back so to speak anyway.
    If I hear anything back from him or his site I'll keep ye posted


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,693 ✭✭✭pma-ire


    Good man Musashi ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,577 ✭✭✭Colm_OReilly


    Musashi wrote:
    Lads,
    Rightly or wrongly I thought ,in the interests of fairness,we should hear from Mr. Comiskey himself.I got on to his website and mailed him,letting him know we had a discussion ongoing and inviting him to join in and present his teaching or whatever.
    I don't know if he will or not,but the offer has been made for him to come and at least have his say.
    I know I have been somewhat sceptical of his style, but I'd prefer to not be talking about the guy behind his back so to speak anyway.
    If I hear anything back from him or his site I'll keep ye posted

    Nice Work.

    I'd like to clear up that we're not talking about Patrick Comiskey himself, rather the claims of KM.

    Peace and Love Y'All,
    Colm


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Musashi


    OK Lads, here is the mail I sent to KravMaga Ireland

    "Sir,
    Just to let you know,there is an ongoing discussion on Boards.ie,on
    the self defense/martial arts forum regarding KM.Some students of Mr.
    Cumiskey have commented there,but I would like to invite the man himself to
    join in and share his experience with us. We are from all different styles
    and backgrounds and have differing views as to how best to train ourselves
    so this style has generated some debate. Any input would be welcomed.
    Thank you for your time.
    Musashi"


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Musashi


    And this is the reply I received,in full as requested by Mr. Cumiskey.

    "Dear Musashi

    Thanks for you note and invite to your board discussion. I am currently in
    Eastern Africa, providing Personal Security, Conflict Management and Self
    Defense training to a number of aid agencies. Internet access here is poor
    and infrequent.
    I don't know who you are, (although I guess you're a fan of the book of five
    rings) or your age, gender or background but there is no need for you to
    call me Sir / or Mr. Cumiskey, but I do acknowledge your courtesy, Patrick
    will do fine.
    I have had had a look at your quite lively debate, but as I said my access
    to the internet here is not so great. Also to be frank I am not one to
    engage in (largely) Anonymous debate with players who do not identify
    themselves, their affiliations or background.
    I do not propose to the comments on the boards discussion point my point but
    since you had the courtesy to inform/invite me I am delighted to share some
    of my perspectives and motivations.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Musashi


    Firstly a little background my name is Patrick Cumiskey (with a "U")

    I am 38 years of age and have trained in martial arts/combat for about 23
    years (with a break here and there)

    My primary background is Kenpo, in which I received a 2nd Degree Black belt,
    I went on to train to 3rd degree but lost interested in belts and stripes

    Over the years I have trained in many martial arts systems some very good,
    others doubtful (to me anyway)

    Styles I have trained in include Tae Kwon Do, boxing, ninjitsu, akido, wing
    chun, kung fu plus a lot of free style kickboxing my training has taken
    place in Ireland, the US and Britain.

    On of the highlights of my time in Britain were stints at the Bob Breen's
    Jeet Kune Do academy in London.


    A few years ago I decided to sell out of a company I had setup, got tired of
    working behind a desk !. After a break thinking about what to do with the
    rest of my life I decided that I wanted to teach every day normal people
    very quickly and efficiently how to protect themselves, when I looked inside
    honestly, I found that I didn't know how to do that! I knew how to teach
    them Karate!

    In addition having worked for many years as a barman while studying,
    witnessing and being involved in preventing / stopping many physical
    situations I had doubts about the effectiveness of much of my training, I
    also found that it didn't deal with the whole situation , e.g. pre-incident
    indicators, verbal abuse/de-escalation, space management , fear/adrenalin
    management etc, etc instead for me the focus seemed to be ritualised
    combat.
    In addition, I had significant concerns with the fact many people were
    drawn into traditional martial arts training with the promise of being
    taught effective self defence when fact these martial arts require a number
    years of training a number of times a week to gain a level of proficiency
    and the usefulness is questionable. They sign up buy the Gi, kimona,
    slippers, whatever, train for 2-4 months and leave with nothing.
    Please note this is not a judgement. Only my opinion from my years of
    observation and teaching these classes, this view has been validated for my
    in recent years as I have met more and more of these people through my
    current courses.
    So I set a challenge to myself which was to find a way to in 24 hours teach
    everyday normal people skills that would allow the to defend themselves
    against street assault,
    And this I believe leads to a very important question "why do you train",
    that's the question that needs to be answered, is it for sport, fitness,
    spiritual enlightenment or real world self defense . (I'm sure there are
    more reasons) and who are you expecting to fight. It appear to me hat in
    most martial art classes train to fight somebody of your own style, shotokan
    c shotokan, tkd v tkd, aikido v aikido. Etc

    When the reality of the situation is if you are going to be assaulted on the
    street you will be assaulted by one or more thugs - muggers, junkies,
    bouncers or just plain mean guys who want to harm you . They are very
    unlikely to be martial artists ( and less likely to of the same style as
    you) and even if they are, they had better have trained for a number of
    years to be any good! Also, in the many situations I have witnessed I have
    never seen a straight reverse, punch, a front lunge or a spinning reverse
    kick thrown ( the moves you spent hour practicing , using and defending
    against in many martial arts classes), I have seen a sword and a Kukri
    though (so maybe Ninjitsu , is the one that has it!)
    Most likely you will see a hay maker, grab and punch, head butt or more than
    likely the lunge and grab resulting in chaotic waltz in the street

    So I decided that I would focus on teaching people how to deal with real
    world threats so to this I had to get equipped ! and began my search.

    Eventually I found Krav Maga , I am not going to discuss KM in detail simply
    because there is a ton of information and debate about it on the web, all
    the major magazines have covered and there a lots and lots of reviews and
    comments. I will say it was the toughest thing I have ever done BUT the most
    rewarding! When I started training in KM it just made so much sense, my
    peers ranged from 4th dan tkd black belts, kung fu black sashes, royal
    marines, riot squad operatives, and they alls felt pretty much the same.
    The training was hard (conducted by Eyal Yanilov the Israeli chief
    instructor) but we were treated with respect and like adults, no sensei,
    sifu or grand master , it was simply Eyal.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Musashi


    To gain access to become the instructor course you had to be a black belt
    and pass an interview. There was a 50% failure rate in the course

    To supplement my Km training I also went and trained in a wide variety of
    other disciplines including becoming a FAST DEFENSE instructor (Fear Adrenal
    Stress Training) FAST Defense is based on "Model Mugging" a system developed
    in the US in response to a situation where a female black belt had been
    unable to prevent themselves from being raped, in a one on one situation.
    This method has masses of published empirical evidence for it effectiveness

    What attracted me to this system was the focus on pre-incident training.
    Verbal skills, adrenalin management and the ability to take action in your
    Defense . The self defense techniques were very simple BUT very effective.
    This is the training which is given at WWW.RMCAT.COM run by Peyton Quinn,
    one of the first 'real world; fighting proponents of the current generation.
    I have been qualified to teach this course by Bill Kipp the chief instructor
    at RMCAT. I incorporate this training in my course.

    In addition to this I have also trained and qualified by Jim Wagner - who
    writes the reality combat column for Black Belt magazine. Jim is a
    phenomenal combat instructor and has trained thousands of military, police
    and special forces personnel all over the world . He was a soldier, body
    guard and US Marshal (specifically an Air Marshall), It took a lot of
    convincing for Jim to train me (he previously only taught military
    personnel) but a mutual friend convinced him,( I am the first civilian Jim
    ever trained) what I sought from Jim was primarily his focus on whole
    incident training, his Ground Survival - Ground Combat, course and his
    Knife Defense training , the best I have seen and know off many people I
    have trained have also taken the 'STAB' knife Defense , they felt they were
    very similar in ethos if not exactly the same in application)

    In summary what I teach incorporates all of the above ( and some KENPO) this
    fully fits with the core system I teach Krav Maga (as the KM philosophy is
    teach what works)
    There is one additional part of my training which is use of a Psychological
    toolset grandly call NLP (Nuero Linguistic Programming). This toolset is
    used world wide by psychologists, therapists and trainers. It focused on how
    we operate in the world, how we communicate through language, body, etc and
    how we learn focusing on accelerated learning. It is used by Special Forces
    for fear/pain management and motivation, sportsmen to achieve peak
    performance and therapists to assist people deal with limiting belief
    systems. I have trained to be Master NLP Practitioner (hate the name!).
    Every step in my course has been devised using principals from this system,
    every thing from how to a make decision under stress, decide to act deal
    with the aftermath. This aspect is crucial to our ability to teach people
    quickly

    A number of comments have been regarding specific techniques

    With regard to the headlock. Absolutely it works (most of the time) but have
    no fear if it doesn't, people who train with me have plenty of options, our
    core philosophy if something isn't working - do something else.

    The ground pin
    First things first! this was live on TV at 8am with a focus on demonstrating
    the type of thing that we look at. This was not a street brawl or cage fight
    with me V Laura Bermingam (Top Irish Model) even though she is great person
    and quite tough!

    It was a demo on a family show designed to give an idea.
    With regard to the specific technique it was a buck, bridge and roll (I have
    seen this taught in BJJ, traditional ju jitsu, judo,etc) so fine if you
    thing it wont work but you've got a list of people to go after. This move
    can and does work but let me re-enforce an earlier point - I do not teach
    these moves as isolated techniques , in dealing with the ground we cover it
    from initiation, what happens when you fall, working to prevent a mount,
    destabilising opponents and last ditch (worst case ) escape moves. We also
    recognise that is possible to be pinned by a larger, heavier person and
    teach specific strategies for dealing with this including, assailant
    negotiation, feigned compliance and also lets face it particularly in a
    female situation, last option survival strategies, some which are to
    distasteful to deal with here, but be sure they are covered.

    Finally when ever your friends have some TV footage please let me know and I
    will do my best to post a review!
    I have great respect for all martial artists, in all my career I have sought
    to learn from anyone I met (and still do) some of the discourteous comments
    I have seen on your discussion to me, are not the behavior of true martial
    artists, it might be useful for these individuals to 'unmask' themselves
    perhaps giving and idea of their training and background so at least those
    reading the comments can understand their credentials and read their
    comments in context.

    I teach self Defense full time and professionally, this is not a hobby or
    sport for me, it's about equipping very day normal people with essential
    skills which one day may make a big difference in their life

    Telling me that some who has spent two intense days training in a reality
    environment is not better equipped to deal with a street thug then the
    average person just CANNOT BE TRUE.
    Telling someone that only hope you have to protect yourself is devote
    your life to a regime of training 3-4 times a week, just doesn't make
    sense!. I suspect that when some of your posters grow up (obviously some
    of them are quite young), go to college, get girl friends, jobs or a have
    children they will see how unreasonable this is. If you knowingly choose
    this course as a means of self fulfillment, fitness etc, Great! But as they
    only way to be capable of defending yourself ABSOLUTLY NOT! If you want to
    compete, cage fight, be an athlete - YES But if you focus is to deal with a
    street encounter the NO!
    I do not believe (as also posted ) we install false confidence ( given that
    the appearance of confidence is considered by most to be a key way of
    avoiding trouble, this comment doesn't make much sense to me) our focus is
    to equip people with the an understanding of violence, teach him how to
    recognise issues before they happen and in worst case scenario where they
    have no choice but act, do so decisively and with conviction seeking at all
    time to escape to safety. I have many examples of situations where people
    have managed to get out of physical situations that previously would have
    escalated or spotting trouble and getting away before it even starts.
    I have trained over a thousand people in the last year, the have ranged from
    people with no experience, those who have trained for a few months, senior
    Dan Grades, police officers, prison officers, Irish soldiers, ranger wing
    instructors, operatives for Ireland Top VIP protection company (including
    ex rangers, French foreign legion).

    Every single member felt they got the monies worth! Speaking of money there
    have been comments on the 'expense' of the course , work it out on average
    if you take my weekly course 30 hours training it works out at about 12
    euro per hours. As one participant said 'You wouldn't get guitar lessons.
    Compare that to cost in time and money to training to 2-4 times per week for
    a 6 months only to get disillusioned and leave with nothing. In addition I
    offer a money back guarantee! I don't know of any martial art club in
    Ireland that does this!


    I would like to thank you for you invitation and the opportunity to perhaps
    let you know a bit more about what we teach


    It is unlikely that will be able to take part in your very interesting (if
    anonymous debate) so enjoy!.

    But you know who a I am and where I am (its on my website)
    www.kravmagaireland.com

    My only request is that if you choose to discuss this correspondence that
    post it in its entirety
    I will leave you with a Final thought, In many cases I don't think the
    comments about years of training etc are wrong, we are just talking about
    different things.

    I wish you and your friends a great career in you chosen martial art

    Best Wishes
    Patrick Cumiskey"


This discussion has been closed.
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