Severe disruption to Heuston Intercity services (June 30)

flyingsnail · 30-06-2013 9:38am #1

http://www.irishrail.ie/cat_news.jsp?i=4860&p=116&n=237

30 June 2013
Due to a person being struck and fatally injured on the line between Adamstown and Hazelhatch, Intercity services operating to/from Heuston are subject to disruption this morning while emergency services attend the scene.
All Heuston Intercity services (to/from Cork, Kerry, Limerick, Galway, Westport, Waterford). will be part substituted by bus, initially between Heuston and Hazelhatch.
Commuter services between Heuston and Kildare will not operate.
This disruption is expected to continue throughout the morning.
We apologise for the inconvenience caused to customers. This website will be updated when further information is available, as will our http://twitter.com/irishrail .

flyingsnail · 30-06-2013 11:11am

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0630/459706-train-death/

A person has been struck and fatally injured by a train in Co Dublin.

The incident happened on the line between Adamstown and Hazelhatch at around 12.20am. Emergency services are at the scene.

The line between Heuston and Hazelhatch is now closed for all Heuston Intercity services and bus transfers are in place.

Services affected by the closure include, to and from Cork, Kerry, Limerick, Galway, Westport and Waterford.

Commuter services between Heuston and Kildare will also not operate.

This disruption is expected to continue throughout the morning.

flyingsnail · 30-06-2013 12:58pm

From Twitter

Heuston to Hazelhatch line expected to reopen at 1pm: services will be subject to delays, but these will ease through early afternoon

Victor · 30-06-2013 3:12pm

https://twitter.com/irishrail

Iarnród Éireann

Services all back operating through Adamstown after disruption

http://irishrail.ie/

Heuston to Hazelhatch line reopens

The line between Heuston and Hazelhatch has reopened following an earlier incident in which a person was struck and fatally injured on the line between Adamstown and Hazelhatch. A full schedule is operating, but is subject to delays

dowlingm · 30-06-2013 5:21pm

according to an RUI thread the person was struck at 0020 - that's 12.5hr+ closure :eek:

Cutbacks in some necessary police/State Pathologist type area?

AlekSmart · 30-06-2013 5:34pm

dowlingm wrote: »

according to an RUI thread the person was struck at 0020 - that's 12.5hr+ closure :eek:

Cutbacks in some necessary police/State Pathologist type area?

There was also a fatal motorcycle incident at Junction 10 on the M50 this morning,which saw the slip road cordoned off and a forensic team in place,so yes I suspect it is a matter of resources...sadly,reality in Ireland is not of an NCSI or Bones scenario,but of a small number of highly qualified individuals working under significant pressures to process multiple scenes.

The_Wanderer · 30-06-2013 8:46pm

The train involved in the accident, 22063 had to be hauled dead back to Laois Traincare Depot this afternoon by 22001.
http://smu.gs/12zYGBw

Thoughts to the driver concerned and the deceased girl's family.

The Wanderer.

n97 mini · 30-06-2013 9:53pm

Anyone know why she was on the track? Was it a suicide?

Hilly Bill · 30-06-2013 10:39pm

n97 mini wrote: »

Anyone know why she was on the track? Was it a suicide?

Yes it was from what i heard.

Jamie2k9 · 30-06-2013 11:24pm

AlekSmart wrote: »

There was also a fatal motorcycle incident at Junction 10 on the M50 this morning,which saw the slip road cordoned off and a forensic team in place,so yes I suspect it is a matter of resources...sadly,reality in Ireland is not of an NCSI or Bones scenario,but of a small number of highly qualified individuals working under significant pressures to process multiple scenes.

That may be the case but its not an excuse that can be used. This happened at 12.20 and the accident was at 06.30. Is it another cause of road before rail?

If there is only a few of these people the railway closure was completely unacceptable, we are talking almost 13 hours for 4 tracks. A complete joke and IE will have to get some answers to ensure it doesn't happen. Most times it only takes 3 and 4 hours at most.

A major train accident wouldn't have caused such a long closure and I also think the fact their was no passengers on the train had a role to play as things would of happened a lot faster if the train was full of passengers.

Not acceptable, no excuses and it shouldn't take 13 hours again. IE have procedures in place but didn't get used and 2 lines should of remained operational.

AlekSmart · 30-06-2013 11:48pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

That may be the case but its not an excuse that can be used. This happened at 12.20 and the accident was at 06.30.Is it another cause of road before rail?

If there is only a few of these people the railway closure was completely unacceptable, we are talking almost 13 hours for 4 tracks. A complete joke and IE will have to get some answers to ensure it doesn't happen. Most times it only takes 3 and 4 hours at most.

A major train accident wouldn't have caused such a long closure and I also think the fact their was no passengers on the train had a role to play as things would of happened a lot faster if the train was full of passengers.

Not acceptable, no excuses and it shouldn't take 13 hours again. IE have procedures in place but didn't get used and 2 lines should of remained operational.

Unacceptable..no excuses..yep,all fair enough points,no doubt of prime importance to all concerned with running a railroad etc...

Oddly enough I did not hear anybody offering any excuses in relation to these incidents,and I for one ain't seeking any.

I don't for a second believe that the Road vs Rail arguement was ever even remotely considered.

It's the reality of life in our imperfect little Republic,and for me it's acceptable because it has to be.

I drove past the blocked-off Junction 10 slip-road barely an hour after this young lad died there...alone..and in circumstances which need investigating and clarifying,perhaps to ensure that a similar accident does'nt befall another innocent person.

As a motorcyclist,I regularly use that very slip-road,and have always found it odd in its camber and acuity,but that could be only my perception.

The Railway situation is as much a fault of the physical layout,which sees such a vast percentage of our Capital City's Mainline and Commuter services all diercted via this single pathway..once it's blocked..it's blocked.

IE may well have "Procedures in place" to deal with the scenario,however I'll wager these take second place to the requirements of the Gardai in relation to what may well be a serious crime.

The actual incident may well have not fitted as neatly into the spatial reqiuirements of 2 line operation as is outlined in the various SOP's for these emergency events.

I think it is a very significant leap to suggest that IE or the Gardai would deliberately seek to keep the lines closed for any longer than it takes to satisfy the grim requiremets of these investigations.

Sad weekend for so many people...:(

Jamie2k9 · 01-07-2013 12:10am

AlekSmart wrote: »

Unacceptable..no excuses..yep,all fair enough points,no doubt of prime importance to all concerned with running a railroad etc...

Oddly enough I did not hear anybody offering any excuses in relation to these incidents,and I for one ain't seeking any.

I don't for a second believe that the Road vs Rail arguement was ever even remotely considered.

It's the reality of life in our imperfect little Republic,and for me it's acceptable because it has to be.

I drove past the blocked-off Junction 10 slip-road barely an hour after this young lad died there...alone..and in circumstances which need investigating and clarifying,perhaps to ensure that a similar accident does'nt befall another innocent person.

As a motorcyclist,I regularly use that very slip-road,and have always found it odd in its camber and acuity,but that could be only my perception.

The Railway situation is as much a fault of the physical layout,which sees such a vast percentage of our Capital City's Mainline and Commuter services all diercted via this single pathway..once it's blocked..it's blocked.

IE may well have "Procedures in place" to deal with the scenario,however I'll wager these take second place to the requirements of the Gardai in relation to what may well be a serious crime.

The actual incident may well have not fitted as neatly into the spatial reqiuirements of 2 line operation as is outlined in the various SOP's for these emergency events.

I think it is a very significant leap to suggest that IE or the Gardai would deliberately seek to keep the lines closed for any longer than it takes to satisfy the grim requiremets of these investigations.

Sad weekend for so many people...:(

The whole railways wasn't blocked, only 2 tracks needed to be closed off and the outbound lines could of operated as normal but as per Ireland gets showed up again, this wouldn't happen anywhere else. When this happens on Connolly side ie DART has it ever being closed for 13 hours, no only 3 at most.

There wasn't a lost of evidence on the outside as all information required was on the train.

This type of closure would cause outrage if it was M50, or Connolly station area.

I'm sure IE are not happy with the situation and the time period it took either and I would hope they will seek answers and ways that this couldn't happen again.

But as you say a sad weekend for many.

Hilly Bill · 01-07-2013 12:31am

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

The whole railways wasn't blocked, only 2 tracks needed to be closed off and the outbound lines could of operated as normal but as per Ireland gets showed up again, this wouldn't happen anywhere else. When this happens on Connolly side ie DART has it ever being closed for 13 hours, no only 3 at most.

There wasn't a lost of evidence on the outside as all information required was on the train.

This type of closure would cause outrage if it was M50, or Connolly station area.

I'm sure IE are not happy with the situation and the time period it took either and I would hope they will seek answers and ways that this couldn't happen again.

But as you say a sad weekend for many.

Where you on the scene ? Do you know for sure that the other 2 lines could have operated?

how do you prevent suicide ?

bikeman1 · 01-07-2013 12:33am

Surely a few minutes delayed is not that difficult compared to the pain and hardship the family are going through and will be going through for a long time.

People need to get a grip with reality. A person has died here. Suicide is such a massive priblem in Ireland.

Jamie2k9 · 01-07-2013 12:43am

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Where you on the scene ? Do you know for sure that the other 2 lines could have operated?

how do you prevent suicide ?

Wasn't at the scene but it happened on the up fast line, there is already a major gap between each 2 sets of tracks and at the point of the incident the gap was much wider as the space is much larger as the platforms were coming up.

Ask anybody and they will tell you that 2 of the 4 lines could of operated normally once the inbound slow line was blocked by another train so the scene was covered up.

The train has the black box, cctv and the train is hardly evidence as it wasn't ii's fault so why the need to keep it their? Everything that will show how events unfolded will of being removed form the train and taken away to be seen.

I wasn't clear about how it couldn't happen again, I meant a 13 hour closure when it should be all wrapped up in around 4 at most, I believe 2 hour window is used in the UK. All you have to do is look at past incidents and no one has taken 13 hours before.

Surely a few minutes delayed is not that difficult compared to the pain and hardship the family are going through and will be going through for a long time.

People need to get a grip with reality. A person has died here. Suicide is such a massive priblem in Ireland.

2 hours isn't a few minutes but the 13 hour closure was way over the top and shouldn't of taken so long to clear a scene.

I not being harsh here, just saying the closure time was a joke and their is no real justification for it.

Would they of kept passengers on the train for 13 hours as passengers are not supposed to see the scene and I can't see them moving to another train.

Hilly Bill · 01-07-2013 12:56am

The guards must have had a good reason as not to allow trains to move so feel free to ring them and complain and offer your expertise. I think its selfish to be complaining about a delay when 2 people lay dead.

Jamie2k9 · 01-07-2013 1:04am

Hilly Bill wrote: »

The guards must have had a good reason as not to allow trains to move so feel free to ring them and complain and offer your expertise. I think its selfish to be complaining about a delay when 2 people lay dead.

I'm not being selfish at all but I see very little justification for a 13 hour closure for an incident that happens a lot in Ireland and all is completed in a few hours. I am sure IE will be wondering the exact same thing.

ProudDUB · 01-07-2013 1:33am

I can see both sides of it to be honest. One does want to show empathy in tragic circumstances such as these. But at the same time, thousands of people do need to get from A to B as quickly as possible. Who are we to judge their reasons for wanting to do so? Don't the needs of the living matter too?

I have a friend who travels by train from Naas to Dublin 3 times a week for dialysis treatments. Speed & reliability of service is of utmost importance to him. So I think that forensic investigations that involve shutting down major transport networks for long periods of time, should get first priority when it comes to the allocation of resources and personnel.

Cookie_Monster · 01-07-2013 1:40am

Hilly Bill wrote: »

The guards must have had a good reason as not to allow trains to move so feel free to ring them and complain and offer your expertise. I think its selfish to be complaining about a delay when 2 people lay dead.

the delay is hardly going to matter to the dead people though is it, whereas it does to the thousands of living ones trying to use the line (or road as it may be).
A couple of hours is all it should take, enough time to gather evidence, photo the scene, remove the train and body and clean the area down. 13 hours is frankly inexcusable.

bikeman1 · 01-07-2013 9:16am

#Dont read if you're squemish#

A friend of mine works for Dublin Fire Brigade and has sadly attended many suicides.

He attended one such train related suicide with the Enterprise at speed in North Dublin. He said the reason it took so long to re-open the line (4 hours) was the difficulty in finding all the parts of the deceased.

Irish Rail have no control in this situation. They would be foolish to start annoying the guards about getting their train set going again.

It is a very traumatic situation for all. Its not just simply pulling the person out of the way and on you go.

We should be doing our best as a society to help our people so they don't end up in such a desperate situation where they feel it is their only answer.

BuffyBot · 01-07-2013 10:23am

I'm not being selfish at all but I see very little justification for a 13 hour closure for an incident that happens a lot in Ireland and all is completed in a few hours. I am sure IE will be wondering the exact same thing.

A couple of hours is all it should take, enough time to gather evidence, photo the scene, remove the train and body and clean the area down. 13 hours is frankly inexcusable.

I'm glad that Ireland's leading forensic investigators have seen fit to call upon us. Oh, wait. (However, if you are the aforementioned leading experts, feel free to forward credentials and I'll gladly eat my head gear).

Unless folks have factual evidence to back up assertions like these, then it's probably best not to make them here in future.

AlekSmart · 01-07-2013 10:42am

BuffyBot wrote: »

I'm glad that Ireland's leading forensic investigators have seen fit to call upon us. Oh, wait. (However, if you are the aforementioned leading experts, feel free to forward credentials and I'll gladly eat my head gear).

Unless folks have factual evidence to back up assertions like these, then it's probably best not to make them here in future.

Sensible stuff.

There is agreement that the railway closure was lengthy,but unless the objectors are in possession of very specific evidence to support their allegations of deliberate delay,then they should desist.

If however they do have this evidence then it should be provided and the matter taken further.

There appears to be a belief that these incidents follow a prescribed manner,designed to make the follow-up investigations easier,but that just ain't so.

There could well be a thousand added and apparently minor reasons why the Investigators needed the time,and not all of them to do with the immediate incident scene.

Polar101 · 01-07-2013 10:55am

I have been on a train (not an Irish Rail train) that passed a similar accident scene - they let the train pass long before the emergency services had finished at the scene. I'd rather not see that ever again.

Paulzx · 01-07-2013 10:59am

I, unfortunately have attended many previous incidents involving fatalities involving trains. I was not present at the incident the other night but i am familar with the area in which it happened.

There has been a lot of poorly informed criticism on this thread from people who's priority is inconvienence to themselves.

The location of the incident is rural and would have been pitch dark at the time. Without being too gruesome, when a train impacts a person at speed it causes such damage that body parts are spread over a large area both on the tracks, in surrounding ditches and on the train itself. The train can take a large distance to stop, further spreading these parts. Once death has been established, locating these parts at night in the dark would be ruled out both on a practical basis and because of the need for the gardai to initiate an investigation.

Opening the adjoining lines in a four track system is not safe or practical. It is quite possible that body parts will be on all the four lines if the impact is severe and it is also completely unsafe for fire or gardai to be working on the lines whilst an adjoining inter city line is open. No Fire Officer in charge is going to allow this and i presume the garda officer in charge would be the same.

It's very easy to look at the news report and condemn people for closing the line. It's not so easy to walk along the line picking up pieces whilst looking over your shoulder for an oncoming train. Closing the line is the only option until the scene is investigated properly and cleared.

The victims family deserve the matter to be dealt with respectfully and correctly.

dowlingm · 01-07-2013 2:03pm

how well fenced off is the alignment in the vicinity? Obviously fencing makes the attempt more difficult rather than preventing it but a 4 track 100mph railway is akin to a motorway and should be secured.

cbl593h · 01-07-2013 5:11pm

Got wrapped up in the aftermath of one in the UK today (http://www.worcesternews.co.uk/news/10518466.Body_found_on_railway_line/?ref=mr ).

The train that spotted the body by the track got on the move after about 50 minutes. All the trains that went through the area earlier in the morning were checked, the unfortunate one that had made contact had reached London !

And already this afternoon a Reading to Gatwick service has also had one under. It happened at 1354 but normal working has been declared at 1521.

Network Rail's procedure is if the death is declared non-suspicious that the line will be reopened with 121 minutes of the first report.

Jamie2k9 · 01-07-2013 5:41pm

dowlingm wrote: »

how well fenced off is the alignment in the vicinity? Obviously fencing makes the attempt more difficult rather than preventing it but a 4 track 100mph railway is akin to a motorway and should be secured.

The 4 track area is well fenced off and their is no way someone would climb over it. Access likely through the station and onto the line.

mtjm · 01-07-2013 7:25pm

Read in the paper that the lady in question fell asleep on the train and had missed her stop so tried to walk back to portlaoise or something, it was in today's star

Captain Chaos · 01-07-2013 7:32pm

mtjm wrote: »

Read in the paper that the lady in question fell asleep on the train and had missed her stop so tried to walk back to portlaoise or something, it was in today's star

Wouldn't believe half of what is in the Star most of the time tbh. The amount of times I see wrong accounts and details on subject I know first hand about are shocking. Very poor research and reporting in that rag and most of the others out there.

cbl593h · 01-07-2013 11:29pm

mtjm wrote: »

Read in the paper that the lady in question fell asleep on the train and had missed her stop so tried to walk back to portlaoise or something, it was in today's star

People do do silly things.

Grandeeod · 01-07-2013 11:31pm

Here's THE STAR'S version of events. Make of it what you will.

http://www.thestar.ie/star/woman-dies-in-train-horror/

For a start I didn't think it was a "goods" train. It was an empty stock movement.

Severe disruption to Heuston Intercity services (June 30)

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