Aerial Problem with DTT Picnic Sagem

There are two aerials in that pic1. One is OK for DTT/UHF Analogue and the other larger one is for VHF RTE1 & RTE2.

The pic2 is an MMDS dish. Nothing to do with free Analogue TV or Digital TV. Only for UPC's 2.6GHz Pay TV service. I don't know how you got Saorview. You may have been receiving UPC channels as the MMDS aerial down converts to BandIII or Hyperband usually. Not all channels are encrypted. Ex Chorus areas use DTT like Saorview, ex NTL areas use DVB-c.

The Picnic will need replaced soon. No-one other than the curious should have bought Picnics as they don't meet Saorview spec. Part of the time after launch it will not receive RTE2. It may not receive sound later. By late 2011 the Picnic may not give pictures on RTE or TG4.

The service is not live yet. There can be days with no transmission.

Soft launch is on 31st Oct 2010 and full public launch of the DTT (Saorview) is likely mid 2011. See http://www.techtir.ie/saortv

I presume your signal would be from Mt. Leinster. Today 23rd August it was not transmitting DTT (Digit Television / Saorview)

Definitely something fundamentally wrong here! Are you saying that you connected the Picnic box directly via coax cable to the antenna in pic 2? The MMDS antenna needs a power source for the downconvertor - usually this is the Chorus/UPC box. The box then decrypts as necessary and passes the signal to the TV.

You referred to "cable" not being available outside Kilkenny. MMDS is a transmitted signal, not cable. It's available all over the country where cable is not an option. It still needs a set-top-box to power the antenna and decode the signals. Pic 2 is a photo of an MMDS receiving antenna - not suitable for DTT!

Your UHF antenna (not the VHF antenna with the vertical elements) should be used for reception of DTT signals. Are your two aerials combined somewhere? You say that analogue RTE 1 and 2 are just ok but TV3 and TG4 are poor. Is there a chance that your cabling is faulty - corroded connections or water in the downleads? With a digital signal it's really all or nothing. If you signal/quality levels are below a certain threshold, then you will get nothing. Above that threshold the picture will be perfect, with no visible increase in quality as the signal strength increases - just a reduction in error rate.

edit - I see from your photo that you have a combiner (or masthead amp) on your setup. You should definitely check your connections to ensure that you don't have a corrosion problem or a bad connection somewhere.

Alternatively - if you are receiving from Mt. Leinster on CH45, then you could be suffering from co-channel interference from DTT in Wales - see other threads on this. Why your mate's location doesn't have this problem and works with an MMDS antenna is another story!

watty wrote: »

The "mates" house must have an attic aerial. I wonder how far from Mullaghanish?

There's a reference to Thomastown, Co. Kilkenny, so I'm assuming Mt. Leinster, perhaps?

fat-tony wrote: »

There's a reference to Thomastown, Co. Kilkenny, so I'm assuming Mt. Leinster, perhaps?

I'd have thought so.

October 31st 2010 is "soft start"
"Mid 2011" (exact date not decided) is Public Launch.

Sam Russell wrote: »

No, not useless. It will provide DAB stations at a very low cost, if nothing else. I also think that it will provide TV3 reception for a very long time, as I doubt they will be going HD for some time.

Also RTE Kids, which I assume won't be HD medium term. Well my plan anyway is to move it into the play room if, or when, other channels become dodgy.

watty wrote: »

Whatever,

No-one should be recommending the Picnic or buying it.

I may get a €20 USB DTT stick for DAB radio. I'd not use a Picnic.

Thanks Watty

Until we get a lit of the offical receivers, the picnic will do me. Any idea when the offical list will be launched?

STB, i like the look of that walker box, would i be taking a risk picking that up now or are you sure it will be offical?

I have not paid subscription for several years to Sky. I have fitted aerial and amp to ensure good Analogue reception till a DTT service launches.

As part of my job I tested Neotion "CAM" adaptor and several set-boxes. They were all poor. I also had a €2,500 PCI card for PC and expensive software and transmitters to generate my own MPEG 4 SD and HD transmissions. I re-encoded various DVD and satellite recordings and re-multiplexed test files given me by DTT and Cable equipment vendors. The Neotion and existing DTT set boxes rubbish solutions for Nordig 2.0 or RTE.

I decided it was a waste of money (and said so here) to buy anything that didn't match a final spec. and probably foolish to buy before stuff had certification. I did also have a DTT PCI, which failed. I have not bothered replacing it yet.

There is not even a reliable service yet as it is only engineering. So there is absolutely no need for anyone to rush out and buy anything specially before even 2011, much less November 2010.

People google and find these pages. It's irresponsible to recommend unsuitable equipment to the public. This is not a private forum.

IMO No-one that can get current DTT TESTS is unable to get a decent analogue signal by getting a decent aerial installed.

The DTT has been erratic due to RTE changing stuff and has no TV3 (no great loss I suppose yet).

There is no such thing as a good stop gap measure and the Neotion "CAM" card and Picnic box and similar would not be it.

From RTE NL site

Digital Roll Out_________________

RTÉNL is undertaking DTT technical test transmissions in a number of areas. This is being done to verify the engineering integrity of the systems and to confirm coverage.

These test transmissions will operate for varying durations and are subject to regular variations and prolonged interruptions. The test transmissions will cease in the majority of areas once testing is complete.

Permanent transmissions will not commence until the service is formally launched by the broadcasters.

Under no circumstances should the test transmissions be considered an operational service.


When will I get it?______________________

DTT is not available at the moment and the actual launch date or dates is a matter for RTÉ, in respect of the public service multiplex, and the BCI, in respect of the three commercial multiplexes.


RTÉNL is undertaking engineering work to prepare the network for the delivery of DTT to the homes of Ireland. The roll-out of the infrastructure necessary to provide this service has started and will continue over the next four years.

RTÉNL anticipates that DTT services will be launched to the viewing public in the next year or so but, as previously mentioned, the actual launch date or dates is a matter for RTÉ, in respect of the public service multiplex, and the BCI, in respect of the three commercial multiplexes.


RTÉNL is currently undertaking live tests from a number of sites but these are subject to interruption from time-to-time and will cease once testing is complete and cannot be considered to be a “live” service.

From http://rtenl.ie/dtt.htm

It's not recommended (and I have said this many times over last 5 years) that anyone buy anything * ESPECIALLY * for Irish DTT / Saorview at this stage. Not even the Walker box, which may be genuinely approved, till there is a real Saorview logo on the box or TV.

Assume if you have to buy a TV today (or before there are ones with a Saorview logo) that it may need a Saorview set-box. If you absolutely have to buy a TV now, these are the minimum specs http://rtenl.ie/downloads/RTE-FTA-DTT-Receiver-Spec.pdf. Basically the mandatory parts of Nordig 2.0, some optional bits are mandatory and MHEG5.

STB wrote: »

With just the internet at my disposal I sourced an MHEG5 box to RTE spec that also plays AVI/MKV formats and records via PVR for €81 retail (certification will cost another €30,000 though).

With time on my hands I also found the chassis that the Walker is based on but the chipset is not the same as its an MPEG2 DVB-S box.

Anyone care ? Right I'll give box anoraks 2 hours to find both.

So if we flog 5,000 of them the logo sticker only costs us €6? Has it got one or two tuners?

Have you got an Investor?

Anyhow the "naysayers" that wanted us to use Freeview boxes (since then ironically obsolete with Freeview HD) claimed that the MPEG4 boxes would either not exist or cost €200.

You (STB) have yet again proved this is nonsense.

Once there is a real market there will be no shortage of stuff as it all already exists. If all the well known brands are in the shops by summer 2011, that is actually fine. Then they may be €40 to €60 instead of today's €80 to €90. A decent dual tuner PVR may cost a lot more (A nice Panasonic HD HDD PVR with BD player/recorder is about €1100 today). I'm not fussed any more about a combo box. I was interested in a Combo till 14-07-2010. If you want Freesat, there is no need since then for a Combo unless everything goes pear shaped.

It seems to me they are only "soft launching" at 31st Oct 2010, not just on basis of number of DTT sites, but because they want Saorsat and significant 2nd Mux sites running as the Minister is saying December 2011 latest and RTE NL / RTE is saying no earlier than Q2 2012. Kasat Launches between Nov 2010 and Jan 2011. RTE said RTE Satellite Service, Saorsat from Q2 2011

Even the Tiny Irish market, €30,000 is afforable for Certification for any major TV or box maker (sounds a bit high though). I think you can assume all the Freeview HD sets will have it as the differences from D-Book (UK HD DTT) are not costing royalty. The UK TVs need MHEG5, MPEG4 and AAC also. Since ALL the UK retailers make more money selling "Freeview HD", and it's backward compatible to Freeview, I think in 6 months there will be no TVs under 22" in UK that are not MPEG4 Freeview HD.