The Problem with Rafa Benitez...

Melion · 22-01-2009 04:00PM

ntlbell wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Is it ok to ask for an explanation of this?

joe123 · 22-01-2009 04:13PM

Benitez has his problems but hes still a good manager.

One of his failings is his transfer dealings. Buying robbie Keane + Dossena = 26 million....Robinho = 32 million.

Seeing as we had insua dont you think its Benitez job to know that instead of buying dossena we had a very promising left back sitting in the reserves?

Also some of his line ups/substitutions....lucas on against everton instead of mascherano?? Kuyt playing every week while babel/keane get about 10 minutes a week?

Despite all this we are lucky to have a manager of benitez quality at our club.

Paparazzo · 22-01-2009 04:16PM

joe123 wrote: »

Seeing as we had insua dont you think its Benitez job to know that instead of buying dossena we had a very promising left back sitting in the reserves?

Rafa seems to buy 2 full backs every year. Possibly because he's not allowed to spend the money on his first choice, and ends up with someone not good enough. Hence his contract negotiations

Mr Alan · 22-01-2009 04:19PM

joe123 wrote: »

Also some of his line ups/substitutions....lucas on against everton instead of mascherano??

wat was wrong with that substitution? Lucas has been quite a bit better than Mascherano the last month. was that the reason Yossi commited a stupid foul and we dropped points?

joe123 · 22-01-2009 04:22PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

wat was wrong with that substitution? Lucas has been quite a bit better than Mascherano the last month. was that the reason Yossi commited a stupid foul and we dropped points?

Ive seen Lucas play quite alot this season and he hasnt impressed me one bit. Stray passes/gives away fouls etc. And yossi isnt good enough for Liverpool.

Melion · 22-01-2009 04:25PM

joe123 wrote: »

Ive seen Lucas play quite alot this season and he hasnt impressed me one bit. Stray passes/gives away fouls etc. And yossi isnt good enough for Liverpool.

The same Lucas who was probably MOTM against Newcastle?

Mr Alan · 22-01-2009 04:26PM

again, Yossi has been quite excellent the last couple of months.

Lucas has impressed more than Mascherano the last while, Mascherano (who i love) has been quite poor this season.

i'm just pointing out that the substitution you thought was baffling and is the type **** people like to beat Rafa with, was actually quite straight forward, the only reason it becomes "baffling" is because of a foul commited by Yossi-hardly anything to do with Rafa.

Boggles · 22-01-2009 04:36PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

again, Yossi has been quite excellent the last couple of months.

Lucas has impressed more than Mascherano the last while, Mascherano (who i love) has been quite poor this season.

i'm just pointing out that the substitution you thought was baffling and is the type **** people like to beat Rafa with, was actually quite straight forward, the only reason it becomes "baffling" is because of a foul commited by Yossi-hardly anything to do with Rafa.

Nothing wrong with bringing Lucas on over Mascherano, but bringing a defensive midfielder on and having no strikers for the last 10 or so minutes of a derby match was a mistake IMO.

Mr Alan · 22-01-2009 04:38PM

was Kuyt not playing up front?

LuckyLloyd · 22-01-2009 04:41PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

was Kuyt not playing up front?

He was.

Mr Alan · 22-01-2009 04:43PM

ok, so we did have a striker playing up front for the last few minutes.

the same striker who played up front in our performance of the year a couple of weeks previous

SCREW YOU RAFA! SCREW YOU!

Boggles · 22-01-2009 04:47PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

was Kuyt not playing up front?

I stand by what I said.

Mr Alan · 22-01-2009 04:48PM

Boggles wrote: »

I stand by what I said.

as do i

Mr Alan wrote: »

ok, so we did have a striker playing up front for the last few minutes.

the same striker who played up front in our performance of the year a couple of weeks previous

SCREW YOU RAFA! SCREW YOU!

Boggles · 22-01-2009 04:51PM

Personally I think he should have brought on Babel (I know) or one of the young pacey strikers.

Then again Lucas was only on the pitch a few seconds before the foul was committed so it wasn't his fault.

The marking of Cahil was where the fault was and thus the defense have to hold there hands up.

SantryRed · 22-01-2009 05:06PM

The problem with Rafa Benitez is that he doesn't like changing formation. I personally think letting Pennant go was a big mistake. If he had Riera and Pennant on the wings at home to the likes of Stoke and West Ham they would have won no bother.

Everyone makes mistakes in transfers. Who hasn't? Ferguson signing Veron. Mourinho signing Shevchenko(if it was his decision). No manager is perfect in the transfer window.

Highsider · 22-01-2009 05:09PM

joe123 wrote: »

Benitez has his problems but hes still a good manager.

One of his failings is his transfer dealings. Buying robbie Keane + Dossena = 26 million....Robinho = 32 million.

Seeing as we had insua dont you think its Benitez job to know that instead of buying dossena we had a very promising left back sitting in the reserves?

Also some of his line ups/substitutions....lucas on against everton instead of mascherano?? Kuyt playing every week while babel/keane get about 10 minutes a week?

Despite all this we are lucky to have a manager of benitez quality at our club.

Emmmm the same Robinho who is at home in Brazil in a strop because his mate did'nt join him at City?...No thanks.

PHB · 22-01-2009 05:11PM

I probably would have brought Lucas on 12 seconds earlier, it would have made the difference.

monkey9 · 22-01-2009 06:28PM

deisedevil wrote: »

If Rafa had not won the CL would he still be manager now?

If he doesn't bring Liverpool to the PL title or a CL title this season do you think he should stay?

Just wondering.

If Alex Ferguson hadn't won the F.A Cup in 1990, would he still be manager now?? History can take some bizzare twists and turns.

The second question, yes. He should stay. Champions League is not a priority over a league challenge, but success would of course be most welcome.
A league title isn't a be all and end all for Rafa continuing in the job. Just to be up there with a chance come April and May and not being out of it by November. That shows progression compared to previous campaigns

monkey9 · 22-01-2009 06:47PM

ntlbell wrote: »

why do people keep saying things like this

jose two prem titles back to back two cl semi's - gone.

grant cl final second in the leage - gone.

There are different expectations on both clubs considering the gulf in wealth between the two.
If that's what Roman was prepared to do, he can do it. But they ain't exactly looking invincible these days, are they??
And it's that kind of nonsense that your point makes about Abramovich's decision making that is what we are talking about when we back Rafa. We can see the progress he is making and getting rid of him and starting all over again is just back to square one, except square one is even further behind square two than ever

Jazzy · 22-01-2009 06:51PM

Boggles wrote: »

Their second.

they're second

mistake correcting seems to be todays theme boggles ya ? :pac:

eagle eye · 22-01-2009 06:53PM

joe123 wrote: »

Benitez has his problems but hes still a good manager.

One of his failings is his transfer dealings. Buying robbie Keane + Dossena = 26 million....Robinho = 32 million.

Its all so simple really, you are such a genius. Only 6 million in the difference. so clever, did you ever consider the wages might also be a factor?
Like that there could be anything up to 5 mill per year difference.

monkey9 · 22-01-2009 07:00PM

Ardent wrote: »

Back to your original post. I agree with you that Benitez may need to be replaced, I too have run out of patience with the guy, but I think we should wait until the end of the season before judging him. He's still in with a shot of winning the title.

So you want Rafa gone, but you're gracious enough to let him stay on til the end of the season because you think that for the first time in nineteen years, he is in with a shot of winning the title?? With fans like you, hey??
Your statement above pretty much negates anything else you have to say

Ardent wrote: »

- Has not shown a capacity to adapt to the English league after almost 5 seasons in charge.

You're seriously saying this, yeah? The manager, who's team collected our biggest tally of points in a Premier League season, who have broken records for cleans sheet in a row, clean sheets over a season and who are now challenging for the title as we approach February??

Ardent wrote: »

As I said, we should wait until the end of the season. Benitez started this season saying that it was the first season where he had a squad resembling what he required. Unfortunately, we have been largely poor this season and, only for some fortuitous comebacks in the first quarter of the season, we would be out of the race already. If we do now continue in the same vein and fall away badly from the title race (which I predict we will) then the club should really call time.

Largely poor?? So have other clubs, we're still in challenging. And as for fortuitous comebacks, you still have to earn them. I could say the same thing about Utd. If they hadn't scored late against the likes of Sunderland, Bolton, Boro etc, they'd be out of the race.

Ardent wrote: »

As for prospective replacement managers, I would be happy with anyone from: Hiddink, Mourinho, O'Neill. You feel with O'Neill in particular - if he had our players at his disposal - that he would canter to the title. You just have to see how Villa are flying right now and how their players are loving their football. The same players start every week and there's an understanding between them that's sorely lacking at Liverpool. Not sure how he would do in Europe but I think he'd be fine.

The fact that you even mention prospective replacement managers considering we're level on points at the top, still in the F.A Cup and a last 16 meeting with Real Madrid in the Champions League is laughable.
And O' Neill would canter to the title with our players?? These are Rafa's players, his signings. People are slating Rafa's signings, you yourself has said his transfer dealings have been hit and miss, but yet you think he's assembled a title winning side who would romp to that title, it just needs O' Neill to be in charge?? :rolleyes:

You see, the problem i have with the likes of yourself and The Chessplayer is not necessarily your anti-Rafa stance (although i just can't comprehend it), but it's more the fact that you seem have made up your mind about him. That no matter what he does, you will find the negative. And whatever positives you may find, you still probably wouldn't credit him.

monkey9 · 22-01-2009 07:31PM

The Chessplayer wrote: »

Skrtel injury was not a problem as we had Agger in cover, unlike last season when Agger got injured and Hyppia had to fill in. Torres was a huge loss, but pushing Gerrard up front made up for this.

:rolleyes:

It's almost like your suggesting that Rafa has bought good players, put together a decent squad and can make tactical decisions when required. But that can't be right, can it? For surely Rafa is a clueless clown who hasn't one iota of footballing knowledge and is running the club into the ground after the heady heights of Houllier's last season which Rafa was lucky enough to pick up the pieces from!!

monkey9 · 22-01-2009 07:38PM

ntlbell wrote: »

no, you'll end up 4th again.

another year with nothing.

same as you were..

So this is your response to Melion's example that Liverpool, finishing level on points with the eventual champions and the other two, but finishing 4th on goal difference is not progression compared to finishing fourth about 11, 12 or twenty points behind the Champions?

jesus_thats_gre · 22-01-2009 07:54PM

monkey9 wrote: »

So this is your response to Melion's example that Liverpool, finishing level on points with the eventual champions and the other two, but finishing 4th on goal difference is not progression compared to finishing fourth about 11, 12 or twenty points behind the Champions?

It is strange. I have read quite a few posts by ntlbell on other forums and he seems surprisingly reasonable but when it comes to football, he seems to loose all ability to have a reasonable discussion.

Boggles · 22-01-2009 08:30PM

2 give an answer on your 2 main points Chessplayer.

The Chessplayer wrote: »

Benitez's pig-headedness in contract wranglings are really p!ssing me off. I would not be happy to have him 100% in control of the transfer budget. If he walks, then so be it.

It's clear that some board members do not trust Rafa in the transfer market, and that is fair enough he has bought a large quantity of turkeys, but to be fair to him he has the knack of recouping the money for said turkeys and selling them on at equivilant or not huge loss amounts.

There was so much made out of the Barry affair that it is hard to tell the wood from the trees. I think Rafa wanted Barry badly, so much so he was willing to sell Alonso, noone came in for Alonso and the board would not stump up the rest of the cash for Barry, add the 20 million of Keane and the stories behind that and you can see why Benitiez might want greater leverage when it comes to the transfers he wants.

In hindsight selling Alonso would have been a bad idea.

The Chessplayer wrote: »

Who would replace him?
They say MO'N wouldn't be interested, and I'm not sure we could get Mourinho...

Mourinho would be a definate No, No. He has a proven track record of being out the door when he doesn't get his own way, and the lack of harmony in the Liverpool boardroom would keep him away.

As for Martin O'Neill, Liverpool could do alot worse, then again they could do alot worse than Benitez, Ramos comes to mind.

Warper · 22-01-2009 09:26PM

There are a number of problems wrong with Benitez along with a number of positives.

The guy is tactically brilliant for the "big matches" which he has shown on numerous occasions especially in the CL and this year in the Premier League.

Unfortunately he is stubbornly naive, especially at home, playing the lesser teams. He cant seem to grasp that lesser teams will play ultra-defensive at Anfield and he cant seem to figure out a way to overcome this.

It is debatable whether Liverpool are improving - Chelsea, Utd., Arsenal are not playing as well this year as previously so this is obviously a major factor why Liverpool are at the top of the table as they are still having a number of shocking results especially at Anfield.

He buys an awful lot of average players, players that simply will not improve the team. He also seems to be still unsure of what his best team is? I mean what manager excludes a centre-half for the Champions League and then proceed to play him in every match even when he has a full squad to choose from? Ya im talking about you Sami. So all in all is he really the man to guide Liverpool to the Premiership - I think not.

citytillidie · 22-01-2009 10:00PM

Why are you guys feeding ntlbell?

joe123 · 22-01-2009 10:31PM

Highsider wrote: »

Emmmm the same Robinho who is at home in Brazil in a strop because his mate did'nt join him at City?...No thanks.

You wouldnt like robinho at Liverpool?? For ****s sake...:cool:

True maybe your right about lucas against newcastle he had a good game but seriously one game hasnt made him. Watch him next time, his passing at times is woeful.

And having no strikers left on (kuyt would striker more fear into a brick wall than he would any centre backs) was bascially giving Everton the incentive to just come at us.

As much as I like Benitez and dont want him out of the club I do take off my rose tinted glasses at times and ask myself "Rafa what the **** are you at".

And if you havent asked yourself this then your lying to yourself.

The only reason were so close to the top in years is quite simply Chelsea and United are under performing.

monkey9 · 22-01-2009 10:43PM

Warper wrote: »

He buys an awful lot of average players, players that simply will not improve the team. He also seems to be still unsure of what his best team is? I mean what manager excludes a centre-half for the Champions League and then proceed to play him in every match even when he has a full squad to choose from? Ya im talking about you Sami. So all in all is he really the man to guide Liverpool to the Premiership - I think not.

He was excluded because of the foreigner rule in the Champions League and it's not like it has cost us now, is it?
He's played a lot of games due to Skrtels injury and to deal with the Stokes and Boltons

The Problem with Rafa Benitez...

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