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Shooting Forum - Firearms licencing information


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Advice on grant of firearms licence

  • 02-08-2014 12:50am
    #1
    Jayzesake
    Closed Accounts Posts: 392 ✭✭


    Hello folks, any advice on the following would be appreciated.

    I applied for a licence for a .22wmr about 7 weeks ago, and today I received a letter saying the grant had been approved, with rifle serial no., quantity of rounds etc, and details for payment of the licence fee.

    However it says that it is a grant for a ".220 Inches Rifle", with no mention of wmr. I presume this will also be printed on the licence when it arrives.

    I'm pretty certain I put .22wmr on the application form. Is this an issue that I need to rectify now, or are all .22s described in the same way on licences and therefore I don't need to worry?

    Or could it be an issue in the future, for e.g. when I need to buy rounds, or if the licence is checked against the rifle?

    Thanks


Comments

  • #2
    rocoso
    Registered Users Posts: 71 ✭✭rocoso


    no need to worry.....22 calibre or 220 thousands of an inch is usually the largest caliber you are allowed in this country ...good choice on the wmr over the hornady round or the hmr which is .17 or one hundred and seventy thousands of an inch in diameter ....this is the synopsis the wmr goes a very little slower but when it reaches its target has a far bigger punch than the hornady .17 ...itsis more accurate over that hundred meters but when it gets there has about 25 /cent less impact .....you should look at the weight of projectile and weight of powder pushing it....my preference is the wmr shooting balistic or plastic tipped shells ....i also own a 223 for the stuff it wont shoot


  • #3
    garv123
    Registered Users Posts: 6,576 ✭✭✭garv123


    rocoso wrote: »
    no need to worry.....22 calibre or 220 thousands of an inch is usually the largest caliber you are allowed in this country ...good choice on the wmr over the hornady round or the hmr which is .17 or one hundred and seventy thousands of an inch in diameter ....this is the synopsis the wmr goes a very little slower but when it reaches its target has a far bigger punch than the hornady .17 ...itsis more accurate over that hundred meters but when it gets there has about 25 /cent less impact .....you should look at the weight of projectile and weight of powder pushing it....my preference is the wmr shooting balistic or plastic tipped shells ....i also own a 223 for the stuff it wont shoot

    .3 is the largest on a non restricted licence and the hmr pisses all over the wmr for accuracy and carries more energy after 80 yards.
    There's a reason the hmr is so popular and the wmr is worthless almost as a trade in


  • #4
    Jonty
    Registered Users Posts: 1,830 ✭✭✭Jonty


    .17 hmr is a harder hitter past 80 yards, but I've shot rabbits at 160yds with a 22WMR where lads have missed with a hmr.

    Get to know your rifle when you pick it up.

    Don't worry, .220 inches is correct.


  • #5
    deeksofdoom
    Registered Users Posts: 2,016 ✭✭✭deeksofdoom


    rocoso wrote: »
    no need to worry.....22 calibre or 220 thousands of an inch is usually the largest caliber you are allowed in this country ...good choice on the wmr over the hornady round or the hmr which is .17 or one hundred and seventy thousands of an inch in diameter ....this is the synopsis the wmr goes a very little slower but when it reaches its target has a far bigger punch than the hornady .17 ...itsis more accurate over that hundred meters but when it gets there has about 25 /cent less impact .....you should look at the weight of projectile and weight of powder pushing it....my preference is the wmr shooting balistic or plastic tipped shells ....i also own a 223 for the stuff it wont shoot

    Get out of it😂


  • #6
    Jonty
    Registered Users Posts: 1,830 ✭✭✭Jonty


    garv123 wrote: »
    .3 is the largest on a non restricted licence and the hmr pisses all over the wmr for accuracy and carries more energy after 80 yards.
    There's a reason the hmr is so popular and the wmr is worthless almost as a trade in

    I wouldn't go so far as to say worthless, but a fella could pick up a minter for less money and in the right hands they are capable on foxes out to 100yds.


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  • #7
    Jayzesake
    Closed Accounts Posts: 392 ✭✭Jayzesake


    Jonty wrote: »
    Don't worry, .220 inches is correct.

    Thanks for the replies lads.

    Seems strange that no differentiation is made between a .22 wmr and a regular .22, given that the cartridges are about 50% bigger. Are you certain dealers will sell wmr ammo to someone with just '.220' on their licence?


  • #8
    garv123
    Registered Users Posts: 6,576 ✭✭✭garv123


    Jayzesake wrote: »
    Thanks for the replies lads.

    Seems strange that no differentiation is made between a .22 wmr and a regular .22, given that the cartridges are about 50% bigger. Are you certain dealers will sell wmr ammo to someone with just '.220' on their licence?

    Yup they will. All licences are like that


  • #9
    Jayzesake
    Closed Accounts Posts: 392 ✭✭Jayzesake


    garv123 wrote: »
    ...the hmr pisses all over the wmr for accuracy and carries more energy after 80 yards.
    There's a reason the hmr is so popular and the wmr is worthless almost as a trade in

    I'm not so concerned about these arguments, as I'm buying the rifle as a cheap second-hand learner, that I can use to get versed in the proper use and handling of a rifle.

    Further down the line I'll be looking to apply for a .243 for hunting deer, though I'll probably keep the .22 wmr as well, as I really like the feel and look of the rifle (Krico). I think going this route is better than applying straight away for the larger calibre, both from the point of view of learning on a rifle that is less powerful and uses cheaper ammo, but also because I hope the guards will look more favourably on the .243 application if they see that I'm not a beginner.

    I know that theoretically I could lodge another application for a .243 tomorrow, but in terms of maximising the possibility of getting a positive outcome (but not waiting forever either), how long would you wait before putting in the application for the .243?

    (I'm aware of the need for a deer licence, permissions to hunt lands, etc., but I'd rather not discuss those aspects in this thread, if that's ok.)


  • #10
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,456 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    rocoso wrote: »
    no need to worry.....22 calibre or 220 thousands of an inch is usually the largest caliber you are allowed in this country.....
    What?

    How do you reckon seeing as how you just said you have a larger one yourself:
    ....i also own a 223 for the stuff it wont shoot
    There are no restrictions on size of a caliber. If you can justify it you can own it. hat goes up to an in excess of 50 caliber.
    Jayzesake wrote: »
    Thanks for the replies lads.

    Seems strange that no differentiation is made between a .22 wmr and a regular .22, given that the cartridges are about 50% bigger.
    The calibers are licensed bases on bullet diameter more so than/instead of chamberingg. Hence the reason why a .22lr, .22wmr, .220 Swift, etc are all marked down as .220
    Jayzesake wrote: »
    Further down the line I'll be looking to apply for a .243 for hunting deer, ............................................. how long would you wait before putting in the application for the .243?
    I know you said you don't want to discuss the requirements to attain a license for a .243, but unfortunately they are inextricably linked.

    The application is meant to be done/processed within 3 months. That is the official timeline. However depending on the district, level of application AGS have to deal with, staff levels in the station, etc. it can happen weeks earlier or months later than the designated timeline.

    The reason i say you cannot avoid the issue of requirements is because any missing information will result in the application being either returned or refused. Also the Gardaí are, for the most part, not granting "deer caliber" unless the person has range membership or a deer license. It's something you need to be prepared for if/when the time comes.
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  • #11
    Sparks
    Registered Users Posts: 40,055 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    rocoso wrote: »
    .22 calibre or 220 thousands of an inch is usually the largest caliber you are allowed in this country
    How, after over a decade of the law being changed, people arguing about the change in here, in clubs, on ranges, in the Dail, the AGS, the DoJ and in the press, does anyone who owns a firearm still think this?
    Was the eight-page application form for the licence not a sign that stuff had changed?
    Seriously, I'm not taking the piss, I genuinely don't understand this (and it's a bloody good argument for having a single channel to push information at firearms owners, which is something we do not have at the moment - and which noone other than the AGS can provide).
    Jonty wrote: »
    Don't worry, .220 inches is correct.
    No, it's really not, for two reasons. First off, the .22lr round isn't .220 inches across:

    Dimension_of_a_%22.22_Long_Rifle%22_ammunition_round.png

    And secondly, the cert refers to caliber not size. They are not the same thing. Size is a dimension, you can measure it. Caliber is a name, it's assigned by (usually) the first manufacturer of that kind of round and the dimensions of the round and how you make it and all that get tagged with that name. Yes, you can in rough terms just say they're equivalent and for day to day chatting, no worries, but when you start talking about legal documents like your firearms cert and the Firearms Act, you can't. Otherwise, you don't know what firearms are restricted certs and what ones aren't.

    I know, it's a piddling point, but this sort of stuff is actually important, at least when dealing with the paperwork.


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  • #12
    Jayzesake
    Closed Accounts Posts: 392 ✭✭Jayzesake


    Cass wrote: »
    I know you said you don't want to discuss the requirements to attain a license for a .243, but unfortunately they are inextricably linked.

    The application is meant to be done/processed within 3 months. That is the official timeline. However depending on the district, level of application AGS have to deal with, staff levels in the station, etc. it can happen weeks earlier or months later than the designated timeline.

    The reason i say you cannot avoid the issue of requirements is because any missing information will result in the application being either returned or refused. Also the Gardaí are, for the most part, not granting "deer caliber" unless the person has range membership or a deer license. It's something you need to be prepared for if/when the time comes.

    Thanks Cass.

    I guess what I'm asking here is, putting the deer licence and other requirements aside for a moment, how long would you wait after being granted a licence for a .22 before applying for a .243?

    If, for sake of argument, I was to decide to wait 2 years, then obviously before the end of those 2 years I would make sure to have all of those other requirements in place prior to making the application.

    I'm just looking for peoples' opinions on how long it would be best to leave it between applications, with achieving a positive outcome in mind, but not wanting to wait forever either.


  • #13
    Sparks
    Registered Users Posts: 40,055 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    Jayzesake wrote: »
    I guess what I'm asking here is, putting the deer licence and other requirements aside for a moment, how long would you wait after being granted a licence for a .22 before applying for a .243?
    Legally, there's no waiting period required. Practically, it depends on your local Superintendent. If he's happy enough that you need the .22 for bunnies and the .243 for deer, he's legally able to issue both at once. Whether he's happy enough or not though, is a whole other kettle of fish.
    I'm just looking for peoples' opinions on how long it would be best to leave it between applications, with achieving a positive outcome in mind, but not wanting to wait forever either.
    Understandable, but unless those people are in your district, their opinions are based on their own superintendent in their districts, and unfortunately with our laws, that means their experiences aren't much use to you as guidelines.


  • #14
    Jayzesake
    Closed Accounts Posts: 392 ✭✭Jayzesake


    Sparks wrote: »
    And secondly, the cert refers to caliber not size. They are not the same thing. Size is a dimension, you can measure it. Caliber is a name, it's assigned by (usually) the first manufacturer of that kind of round and the dimensions of the round and how you make it and all that get tagged with that name. Yes, you can in rough terms just say they're equivalent and for day to day chatting, no worries, but when you start talking about legal documents like your firearms cert and the Firearms Act, you can't. Otherwise, you don't know what firearms are restricted certs and what ones aren't.

    I know, it's a piddling point, but this sort of stuff is actually important, at least when dealing with the paperwork.

    Sparks, are you saying that I should get the guards to make sure ".22 wmr" is written on the licence or I could have problems?


  • #15
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,456 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    To elaborate on what Sparks said, and this is going to be a crap answer, but frankly it's the only one i or anyone can give.

    It's entirely up to you how long you wait.

    There is no legal minimum or maximum time between applications. Having one, legally, does not make you a better candidate for another as each application is based on it's own merits. It's one of the side effects of our licensing system. It's not the man that is licensed but the firearm. So each one is based on your need, reason, etc for having THAT particular firearm.

    It's the same reason why lads with one or two guns get refused a certain make/model or caliber.
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    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

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  • #16
    Sparks
    Registered Users Posts: 40,055 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    Jayzesake wrote: »
    Sparks, are you saying that I should get the guards to make sure ".22 wmr" is written on the licence or I could have problems?
    No, I'm saying you should write ".22wmr" on your application form. The Gardai often mangle that when it goes into PULSE, but that's on their heads; but the application form is your lookout (and legally, you're liable for putting wrong information on it).

    And it's important when considering whether you want an unrestricted or a restricted cert, and that's something else that the applicant, ie. you, is also legally liable for (if you're applying for a .22wmr you should be on an unrestricted cert so long as the magazine isn't more than ten rounds and the rifle's not a bullpup design).


  • #17
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,456 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    I've had .22lr licenses with .22 long rifle, .220 inches on it. I've had shotgun licences that just said shotgun, and others with 12 g on it.

    You'd think there would bee a set list of chamberings to choose from on PULSE, but with my own licenses alone, there is a difference in how they are "named" and that is from the same district. So imagine that over different districts.


    What i'm saying is if you supply all the necessary details on your FCA1, including the exact caliber/chambering then you have done as much as you can. If the licenses come with the wrong details then you can use the FCA2 or a chat with the FO to ask can s/he amend it to the exact/specific caliber/chambering.
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

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  • #18
    Sparks
    Registered Users Posts: 40,055 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    Yeah, my .22lr's down as .220 as well. I think whomever designed the PULSE record to store firearms cert data just set caliber as a numeric field (what you'd use to store a size). That's led to some fun over the years with calibers like the .22-250 (is that a caliber of -.03 or is it a range of calibers from .22 to .250? I've heard of Gardai asking this before), not to mention the fun that occurs when someone gets a .22lr and a .220 swift and points out that in PULSE, those are both .220 caliber, but on the Super's desk, one looks scary and one doesn't...

    100_0663.jpg

    (.220 swift far left, .22lr far right, and almost everything there is listed in PULSE as .220...)


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