RichieC Closed Account
#31

timesnap said:
Richie i only asked you because you a poster i respect a lot,it was not an attack on you,more that i am always on a learning curve simply because i have no faith in any particular party or ideology anymore, i am inclined to believe that the west has entered a post Democracy era(as to how it defined democracy until recently)
I am curious what will be the end game of this new world,thats all.
hopefully he will post when he can to clarify his beliefs.


I don't think we're entering a post democracy era, I think we've been post democracy for a long long time. Consider, in americas case the McCarty era hearings, Cointelpro, water gate, the destruction of workers rights. in ours, well, we've basically been run by a church for 70 years and then a corruption ridden body politic from then on. I think the American style dictatorship of money is moving on to take over us now.

Memnoch Registered User
#32

stretchtex said:
My friends on the left like to use certain unsettling buzz terms to frame the debate between Dems and Repubs. Neocon, evangelical, redneck, jingoistic, unsophisticated, racist. I don't fall into any of those category's and I also do not believe the President is a Muslim and wouldn't have a problem if he were. I get up 6 days a week at 5:30 am and go to work and I'm happy to do it. I expect any capable person to do the same. I believe in a strong defense but I'm opposed to the US meddling in others affairs. I'm mindful that a healthy diet and exercise is an essential component of a healthy existence but not interested in "the nanny state". $16 trillion is not an insignificant number to me. I believe that people who hold similar views an mine will be a factor in the upcoming election.


All that is fine... but you would really vote for someone like Romney? Really?

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stretchtex Registered User
#33

I believe that religion should play no role in matters of the state.
I'm Catholic..don't believe in abortion.
I don't see that as a contradiction.
I don't subscribe to a cradle to the grave mentality.
I believe a safety net of some degree should exist.
I have no patience for loafers.
I'm no teetotaler..I drink, curse and generally raise hell on occasion.
Unions tend to prove to be a source of irritation for me. They played an important role in Chicago beef slaughter houses at the turn of the 20th century.
In the grand scheme of things life is short and life is hard, I want to live free.
The fact that a person aspires to be a politician automatically prevents them from obtaining my unwavering support.
I'm generally optimistic.
Gray, rainy days put me in a disagreeable mood.

Memnoch Registered User
#34

As I said... all of that is fine... though some of that seems confusing.

What do you mean you don't believe in abortion? I'm assuming you mean you are against it. All that stuff you said is very poetic etc. I'm not questioning that you are a unique, complex or interesting individual.

But none of the above helps to advance discussion or debate on the subject at hand...

So I'll ask again... are you seriously thinking of voting for Romney in November. And if I may be so bold as to ask, I'd love to know why?

Brian? Moderator
#35

stretchtex said:
I believe that religion should play no role in matters of the state.
I'm Catholic..don't believe in abortion.
I don't see that as a contradiction.
I don't subscribe to a cradle to the grave mentality.
I believe a safety net of some degree should exist.
I have no patience for loafers.
I'm no teetotaler..I drink, curse and generally raise hell on occasion.
Unions tend to prove to be a source of irritation for me. They played an important role in Chicago beef slaughter houses at the turn of the 20th century.
In the grand scheme of things life is short and life is hard, I want to live free.
The fact that a person aspires to be a politician automatically prevents them from obtaining my unwavering support.
I'm generally optimistic.
Gray, rainy days put me in a disagreeable mood.


If these are beliefs, why would you vote Republican?

Manic Moran Moderator
#36

What else should he vote?

Some of that list tends to lean towards Democrat thinking, some Republican. Some items, like the safety net, can swing either way depending on the details. Voting for a moderate Republican is not inconsistent.

InTheTrees Registered User
#37

I can never understand the US conservative abhorrence of "cradle of grave" care of citizens.

I mean why not care for your neighbours? Is it really such a bad thing?

Is not caring for your people something to be proud of?

southsiderosie Closed Account
#38

stretchtex said:
The narrative that's developing here in the states is if the Republicans control both chambers and the white house will they discontinue the Bush/Obama policies of uncontrolled spending or return to some semblance of fiscal sanity. Are we to believe the polls that 4 out of 10 Americans approve of the Presidents performance??...that's not reflected in my unscientific sampling.


But that is the point - it is unscientific sampling.

I live in Massachusetts. If I judged public opinion by the views of the people I know from my time here (most people who have left end up in New York, DC, or San Francisco), I would have a very warped view of American politics! Lucky for me, my political temperament was shaped by growing up in the Midwest where "all the women are strong, all the men are good looking, and all the children are above average."

Obama's approval/disapproval rating is approximately 47% pro/47% con.

Manach Moderator
#39

There are always the unexpected "Black Swan" events which could unseat the incumbent. Perhaps people have too much expectation in the office of President and should events happen that call the competence of the officeholder in question (thinking of Carter and the Iranian Hostages) - even if a President is unable to influence the event, he will still get punished at the polls.
Thus, I'll be only heading down to bet on the result about month before the election.

Denerick Banned
#40

InTheTrees said:
I can never understand the US conservative abhorrence of "cradle of grave" care of citizens.

I mean why not care for your neighbours? Is it really such a bad thing?

Is not caring for your people something to be proud of?



To be fair to US conservatives they tend to be quite charitable in their personal lives - as in, they give a lot to charity and tend to volunteer for worthy causes in their communities.

US conservatism is rooted in a suspicion of big government that harkens back to the culture of the frontier.

Paradoxically, the modern conservative movement sees no contradiction in supporting draconian restrictions on the private lives of citizens or in enforcing religious dogma on the masses. They do, however, supposedly find the idea of a welfare state/socialism to be abhorrent.

US conservatism died with Goldwater in '64; it was replaced by a social extremism that the likes of Goldwater wouldn't have been capable of recognising. US conservatism is at its best when it held to the philosophy of Edmund Burke - supporting change at a gradual pace, upholding the 'civilising' traditions of society, a skepticism of the extremism of left or right. Unfortunately this kind of conservative is now a tiny minority in a movement comprised mainly of fanatics, religious cranks and social extremists.

3 people have thanked this post
Manic Moran Moderator
#41

InTheTrees said:
I can never understand the US conservative abhorrence of "cradle of grave" care of citizens.

I mean why not care for your neighbours? Is it really such a bad thing?

Is not caring for your people something to be proud of?



The issue comes up when people view the care as an entitlement which they will always get, not as a helping hand for then when times get tough. The belief is that unrestricted caring provides little incentive for people who would otherwise simply leech. Limited caring will get people past the worst times, which can happen to the best of persons.

NTM

Mr.Micro Registered User
#42

Manic Moran said:
The problem is that Obama hasn't really managed to do anything particularly amazing, and the novelty value of him has sortof worn out.



He got Osama did he not? Rather amazing IMO. The Americans should be grateful forever for that, so that they can sleep in their beds knowing that the bad man is gone. That is worth re-election alone.

matthew8 Registered User
#43

I don't blame Obama for the recession and though I don't like the means Osama was caught, that's not why I dislike him. It's the legislation he's brought in. The NDA and Obamacare come to mind, as well as his flip flop on the war on drugs.

Stupendousman Registered User
#44

Hey everyone likes Obama. He has achieved so many little things that have made things better for Americans, he gets very little press for this. But the most interesting is the race by the Republicans. I would love to see a Republican I could support. It is dangerous when one party becomes 'full of nutters'. Look at what happened in Ireland when we had no opposition party that you could support, it led to Bertie.

matthew8 Registered User
#45

Stupendousman said:
Hey everyone likes Obama. He has achieved so many little things that have made things better for Americans, he gets very little press for this. But the most interesting is the race by the Republicans. I would love to see a Republican I could support. It is dangerous when one party becomes 'full of nutters'. Look at what happened in Ireland when we had no opposition party that you could support, it led to Bertie.


If you really think everyone likes Obama you're out of touch. What are these little things?

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