KevR Registered User
#61

Surely if money has been spent on CPOing Gort-Athenry it would be a huge waste/national scandal not to CPO Athenry-Tuam and build the road.

Chris_533976 Registered User
#62

N11 gap has been CPOed for years

spacetweek Moderator
#63

marmurr1916 said:
The revised Programme for Government says that the final designs of all 94 planned road projects will be reviewed in the light of falling traffic (!), and environmental and economic circumstances.

Translated, that means that any planned motorways/HQDCs will probably be downgraded to 2+2 standard and any planned 2+2 will probably be downgraded to single-carriageway.

It also seems likely that some of these projects will be dropped, at least for the lifetime of this government.

I'd expect the Gort to Tuam motorway to go ahead though, although it's very unlikely that the M20 will proceed or that most of the proposed 2+2 upgrades to the N17 between Tuam and Collooney and the N15 between Sligo and Co. Donegal will proceed.

This is greatest load of bulls*** I've ever heard. Traffic is falling *very marginally* because we are in a *temporary economic downturn*. When this ends in a year or two, the roads will be needed again.

Does anyone in Gov actually understand the concept of "long term planning"?

Nuttzz Registered User
#64

spacetweek said:
This is greatest load of bulls*** I've ever heard. Traffic is falling *very marginally* because we are in a *temporary economic downturn*. When this ends in a year or two, the roads will be needed again.

Does anyone in Gov actually understand the concept of "long term planning"?


i feel the dead hand of the greens....

1 person has thanked this post
schween Registered User
#65

spacetweek said:

Does anyone in Gov actually understand the concept of "long term planning"?


This is why our country has so many planning/infrastructure problems. Instead of build it and they will come our govt waits for them to come, then sits about for a few years pondering what to do, then spends a fortune building around them and trying to cope with everybody spread out in an urban/semi-urban mess.

Hopefully it won't be shelved.

marmurr1916 Registered User
#66

spacetweek said:
This is greatest load of bulls*** I've ever heard. Traffic is falling *very marginally* because we are in a *temporary economic downturn*. When this ends in a year or two, the roads will be needed again.

Does anyone in Gov actually understand the concept of "long term planning"?


Exactly.

Any falls in traffic levels are going to be temporary.

The long-term population figures predict that Ireland will have 5 million people before mid-century, roughly an extra 500,000 people compared to 2009.

That's a hell of a lot of extra traffic...

road_high Registered User
#67

That was an awful accident on the N17 last night, 4 young girls killed. Locals on the news said the road is an absolute blackspot there and there have been numerous serious accident in recent years.

deiseman21 Registered User
#68

bad alright, reactionary comments always are!

Amtmann Closed Account
#69

[quote="
THE NATIONAL Roads Authority has been urged to take immediate action to improve the stretch of road on the Galway-Mayo border where four young students lost their lives in a collision between a car and a truck on Tuesday night.

A fifth student, 21-year-old Michelle O’Donnell, daughter of the RNLI Aran Island lifeboat coxswain, was still in a critical condition in hospital last night, having sustained head and chest injuries.

The four students who died on Tuesday night have been named as Sarah Byrne (20) from Headford, Co Galway; Theresa Molloy (19) from Leitir Móir, Co Galway; Marie Stephanie Ní Conghaíle (19) from Baile na hAbhann, Co Galway; and Sorcha Rose McLoughlin (19) from Mulgannon, Co Wexford.
The driver of a truck involved in the collision in darkness and torrential rain at Carrownurlaur, between Milltown, Co Galway, and Ballindine, Co Mayo, was released yesterday from Mayo General Hospital in Castlebar.

Gardaí in Tuam, Co Galway, are investigating the collision, amid calls from residents living close to the crash location for urgent action to address a very dangerous stretch of road.

The five students studied Irish together at NUI Galway as part of their arts degree. The friends, who had attended Michelle O’Donnell’s 21st birthday party on Inis Mór only a few weeks ago, had been returning from a shopping trip in Sligo when the crash happened at about 7.30pm.
Mayo Fire Service senior assistant fire officer Tony Shevlin said the alert was received at 7.32pm, and fire officers arrived at the scene at 7.47pm, with units from Claremorris and Ballyhaunis, along with the ambulance service and gardaí.

“Three of those in the car were dead so we concentrated on the two who were alive and most in need of assistance. All of them were removed from the scene by 8.24pm,” he said.

The scene was such that at first emergency services believed one of the women had been a passenger in the truck.

Fr Michael Kenny of Kilconly parish was called to give the Last Rites. “I will never forget it. It was a scene of devastation,” he said.
Fr Martin O’Connor of Ballindine parish said the truck driver was badly shocked but was recovering. He said the people of Ballindine had been very distressed at the loss of so many young lives.

Residents living close to the crash area expressed shock at the circumstances of the collision, and said that they had been appealing for years for action to be taken on two dangerous bends – known as Coyne’s Bend and Hernon’s Bend, on the eight kilometre stretch between Ballindine and Milltown.

A total of 20 crashes occurred at the two bends in the last three months according to Mary Hernon, who lives at Musicfield on Hernon’s Bend.
Flowers were still in place at Coyne’s Bend yesterday in memory of a man who lost his life there on August 21st.
“8,000 cars pass here every day between Galway and Sligo, and we have been on to the NRA, the county council and councillors and the gardaí about this most dangerous stretch on the entire N17,” Ms Hernon said. “My sympathies go out to the families of these women, and to the whole population of the university and all those doing exams.”
Ms Hernon said that she and neighbour John Coyne had met on Monday to try to organise a petition about the road. “John Coyne has seen more crashes than anyone in his lifetime and it is so traumatic for those involved and for him also,” she said.

Marita Gibbons, niece of Mr Coyne, said the bend was “dangerous whatever the weather”.
“When it’s dry, people are injured and when it is wet people die,” she said. “This is the second time that this road has been closed for fatalities in the last three months and it is a very eerie feeling.” An NRA spokesman could not be reached for comment.

Mayor of Co Galway Cllr Tom McHugh expressed his sympathies to the families of those who died. The volume of rain had been “unprecedented” on Monday night, he said, and he had never experienced driving conditions like it in Co Galway.

The crash brought to five the number of deaths on Galway roads in a 12-hour period. Sally O’Brien (58), a mother of 12 from Williamstown was driving her five-year-old grand-daughter to school shortly after 9am on Tuesday when her car struck a wall. She was pronounced dead at the scene. Her grand-daughter was treated in hospital.
Supt Marie Skehill, who is leading the investigation into Tuesday night’s collision, appealed for anyone who passed the area between 7.20pm and 8pm to contact Tuam Garda station on 093-70840."]
THE NATIONAL Roads Authority has been urged to take immediate action to improve the stretch of road on the Galway-Mayo border where four young students lost their lives in a collision between a car and a truck on Tuesday night.

A fifth student, 21-year-old Michelle O’Donnell, daughter of the RNLI Aran Island lifeboat coxswain, was still in a critical condition in hospital last night, having sustained head and chest injuries.

The four students who died on Tuesday night have been named as Sarah Byrne (20) from Headford, Co Galway; Theresa Molloy (19) from Leitir Móir, Co Galway; Marie Stephanie Ní Conghaíle (19) from Baile na hAbhann, Co Galway; and Sorcha Rose McLoughlin (19) from Mulgannon, Co Wexford.
The driver of a truck involved in the collision in darkness and torrential rain at Carrownurlaur, between Milltown, Co Galway, and Ballindine, Co Mayo, was released yesterday from Mayo General Hospital in Castlebar.

Gardaí in Tuam, Co Galway, are investigating the collision, amid calls from residents living close to the crash location for urgent action to address a very dangerous stretch of road.

The five students studied Irish together at NUI Galway as part of their arts degree. The friends, who had attended Michelle O’Donnell’s 21st birthday party on Inis Mór only a few weeks ago, had been returning from a shopping trip in Sligo when the crash happened at about 7.30pm.
Mayo Fire Service senior assistant fire officer Tony Shevlin said the alert was received at 7.32pm, and fire officers arrived at the scene at 7.47pm, with units from Claremorris and Ballyhaunis, along with the ambulance service and gardaí.

“Three of those in the car were dead so we concentrated on the two who were alive and most in need of assistance. All of them were removed from the scene by 8.24pm,” he said.

The scene was such that at first emergency services believed one of the women had been a passenger in the truck.

Fr Michael Kenny of Kilconly parish was called to give the Last Rites. “I will never forget it. It was a scene of devastation,” he said.
Fr Martin O’Connor of Ballindine parish said the truck driver was badly shocked but was recovering. He said the people of Ballindine had been very distressed at the loss of so many young lives.

Residents living close to the crash area expressed shock at the circumstances of the collision, and said that they had been appealing for years for action to be taken on two dangerous bends – known as Coyne’s Bend and Hernon’s Bend, on the eight kilometre stretch between Ballindine and Milltown.

A total of 20 crashes occurred at the two bends in the last three months according to Mary Hernon, who lives at Musicfield on Hernon’s Bend.
Flowers were still in place at Coyne’s Bend yesterday in memory of a man who lost his life there on August 21st.
“8,000 cars pass here every day between Galway and Sligo, and we have been on to the NRA, the county council and councillors and the gardaí about this most dangerous stretch on the entire N17,” Ms Hernon said. “My sympathies go out to the families of these women, and to the whole population of the university and all those doing exams.”
Ms Hernon said that she and neighbour John Coyne had met on Monday to try to organise a petition about the road. “John Coyne has seen more crashes than anyone in his lifetime and it is so traumatic for those involved and for him also,” she said.

Marita Gibbons, niece of Mr Coyne, said the bend was “dangerous whatever the weather”.
“When it’s dry, people are injured and when it is wet people die,” she said. “This is the second time that this road has been closed for fatalities in the last three months and it is a very eerie feeling.” An NRA spokesman could not be reached for comment.

Mayor of Co Galway Cllr Tom McHugh expressed his sympathies to the families of those who died. The volume of rain had been “unprecedented” on Monday night, he said, and he had never experienced driving conditions like it in Co Galway.

The crash brought to five the number of deaths on Galway roads in a 12-hour period. Sally O’Brien (58), a mother of 12 from Williamstown was driving her five-year-old grand-daughter to school shortly after 9am on Tuesday when her car struck a wall. She was pronounced dead at the scene. Her grand-daughter was treated in hospital.
Supt Marie Skehill, who is leading the investigation into Tuesday night’s collision, appealed for anyone who passed the area between 7.20pm and 8pm to contact Tuam Garda station on 093-70840.http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/1119/1224259108641.html

Sponge Bob Banned
#70

There is another bad bend south of Milltown ( at Castletown ) and that was tendered out two years ago

http://www.etenders.gov.ie/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=SEP091165

Nothing done to it at all whatever they are at

westtip Registered User
#71

nothing will happen as per usual unless we make it happen - the tragic loss of these four girls and others who have lost their lives on this stretch of road would quite simply not have happened if the road was a seamless DC, that is not to say there would be no further accidents but the liklihood of such devastating head ons is vastly diminished. More flowers by the roadside and memorials erected - but no fast tracking of the removal of these death traps claiming the lives of our citizens.

A local resident on TV news referred to the new road coming but that is a long way off; how many more such tragedies are we to witness on the N17 before the big project moves on.

On a wet windy night it is dangerous to drive, and accidents will happen - in these conditions to give people these rally driving country lanes as main arterial routes - then the state has to look at its role in this sorry situation.

Wake up government and start fast tracking these projects before more lives are lost.

KevR Registered User
#72

Had to drive to Castlebar one night last winter when there was very bad weather. I foolishly took the N84 on the way up as that is the shortest route - it was the worst experience I have ever had driving (aweful road in aweful weather at night). I took the N60 and N17 coming home that night and it wasn't as bad as the N84, but it is still really bad. Spent the whole journey wishing the M/N17 was finished/upgraded.

The M/N17 upgrade will definitely save lives - it will take a good chunk of N84 traffic as well as existing N17 traffic.

murphaph Registered User
#73

First off, dreadfully sad story.

Anyone got any pics of these bendy bits?

Are they similar to the sandwiched section of N11 which is still twisty S2 with no overtaking for about 6km?

Have the NRA/GCC/MCC at least installed double white lines, no passing signage and good road markings including cat's eyes and hazard signage? Any anti-skid coatings been applied at particular points? What is the speed limit? Is it generally adhered to or broken? Do the Gardai attempt to enforce road traffic law here?

A road being bendy is not automatically going to lead to fatalities. There's a lot more involved! A new DC is a long way off so (as with the N11) remedial measures sound like they need to be taken.

munchkin_utd Registered User
#74

murphaph said:
<snip>
A road being bendy is not automatically going to lead to fatalities. There's a lot more involved! A new DC is a long way off so (as with the N11) remedial measures sound like they need to be taken.

Have to agree.
What happened here was a head on collision on a national primary route which is plenty wide for 2 trucks to pass.
So, someone was not on their side of the road.
From the picture below, the road is plenty wide for 2 small vehicles to safely pass.


I would see the issue here being simply that the young girls underestimated the corner and took it too fast. In Ireland this is VERY easy to do.
The speed that you take a corner at is completely up to you to determine with your experience and judgment
The girls were only 18/ 19 so the driver was max 2 years driving.
How should they know this was a 50kmh corner? Or a 40kmh in the wet. HOW?

I'd compare this to Germany.
Before any corner on a main road, there is a speed limit specified limit which is appropriate for the bend. So if its 80kmh its a curve, if its 40kmh or less its a bloody bad bend and you'd want to hit the brakes ASAP or you'll be off the road.

I would suggest that Ireland, rather than putting dozens of signs saying "Caution!" or "Bend Ahead!" or "Slow!", they could skip to the chase and simply put an appropriate limit on the section of the road.

How slow is slow? How cautious is cautious? How dangerous is dangerous?
Slap a limit sign with a number on it and you quantify the danger and hopefully save lives.

murphaph Registered User
#75

munchkin_utd said:
Have to agree.
What happened here was a head on collision on a national primary route which is plenty wide for 2 trucks to pass.
So, someone was not on their side of the road.
From the picture below, the road is plenty wide for 2 small vehicles to safely pass.


I would see the issue here being simply that the young girls underestimated the corner and took it too fast. In Ireland this is VERY easy to do.
The speed that you take a corner at is completely up to you to determine with your experience and judgment
The girls were only 18/ 19 so the driver was max 2 years driving.
How should they know this was a 50kmh corner? Or a 40kmh in the wet. HOW?

I'd compare this to Germany.
Before any corner on a main road, there is a speed limit specified limit which is appropriate for the bend. So if its 80kmh its a curve, if its 40kmh or less its a bloody bad bend and you'd want to hit the brakes ASAP or you'll be off the road.

I would suggest that Ireland, rather than putting dozens of signs saying "Caution!" or "Bend Ahead!" or "Slow!", they could skip to the chase and simply put an appropriate limit on the section of the road.

How slow is slow? How cautious is cautious? How dangerous is dangerous?
Slap a limit sign with a number on it and you quantify the danger and hopefully save lives.

Agreed. Here in Germany there are countless B roads (equivalent of an N road) with straight sections lined by solid mature trees (no barrier) and 100 limit but when a curve comes upon you the limit drops before it to a safe speed. People die in Germany less frequently than in Ireland and a lot of it has to do with driver education.

I would say one thing however-it's too soon to say who was at fault for this accident. The forces involved can easily throw vehicles 180 degrees out of rotation onto the other side so that picture is not enough to establish responsibility. There's also the possibility of a serious mechanical failure (always unlikely but possible) having lead to a vehicle crossing the centre line.

Want to share your thoughts?

Login here to discuss!